I am installing new 6 panel interior wood doors. The old skeleton key lock mechanism are about 3/4″x 4″x4″.
I need to mortise the door edge to receive this lock . A large cavity needs to be mortised. What would be the best approach to recreating this deep mortise?
Is there a lock mortiser guide on the market to assist
with this lock installation?
Replies
Use a spurred, screw-lead auger bit one size smaller than you need to drill overlapping holes, then clean up with a chisel to size. Obviously, drill alignment is critical. Scribe a center line for the mortise to position the lead point in, and make the mortise a little(1/16") larger and deeper.
Don't cut the gain for the face plate until after you have squared out the mortise. Someone else may know an easier way, but that's the traditional method.
Also, a door jack is required unless you can use your bench vise.
There is a lock mortiser made by Porter Cable, but it is pretty pricey. Around $1000.00 as I recall. I've used them extensively and can attest to their accuracy and efficency. It is made for the "old style" deep mrtise locks and will easily handle the size that you describe. It is one of those machines where I ABSOLUTELY had to read the directions and follow them to the letter. Beyond that, it is a VERY good machine. I've drilled and hand mortised locks before and it simply does not compare. It is designed to cut the mortises after the door is hung. It looks a little intimidating, but it works like a charm. It hangs on a rod, from the top of the door and then has built in, self centering clamps that will hold the whole thing in place. You turn on the router and there is a hand crank that moves the machine back and forth and deeper into the door. It really is very nice. You should be able to rent it.
Good Luck!
John
Edited 2/20/2004 9:22:57 PM ET by JMartinsky
What Dave says is good, if you're only doing 1 or 2. If you're doing a whole housefull like 6 or 12, make a jig for the router from 1/2" plywood and with a 4" O.A.L. 1/2" upcut spiral bit you can do the first 2 1/2" or 3" quickly, then finish with chisel and auger bit. You don't need a door jack if you have something solid to clamp one end of the door to so it stays upright, like a bench leg. A door jack is easy to make, it's just a T-shaped frame with a slot for the door and a wedge to hold it steady.
Rob,as long as we're all on to this thread, we all agree that six bit key locks are no big undertaking. At least not spending thousands of bux for an industrial machine made for high speed production. On the other hand There are many ways to skin a cat. When I started hanging doors,(1946) my tool box contained a hammer, several Stanley socket chisels, a brace and 4 or 5 auger bits ,ruler, knife, square etc etc. Yankee 131 screwdriver.I cut and fit and installed at least six complete doors in an 8 hour day Bevelled both sides of door mortised three hinges and bored and morticed the locksets (I forgot to mention my big Stanley plane) Not a power drill in sight.
Later, I graduated to fireproof metal covered wood doors .
I cut those (Kalamine) doors so neatly when mortising the hinges and locks, that you could rub your hand over the cut sheetmetal and not cut your skin. Still no power tools
I've erected and installed many Underwriter metal clad sliding firedoorsand drilled 7/8th inch bolt holes through 36" brick walls using a big ballpeen hammer and three foot long star drills .Still later used my 2' black and decker hammer drill for that task Then came power drills, routers planers screw guns . They spoiled me but I could do each of those jobs easier and faster. I,m 73 now and while I couldn't even lift that old hammer drill with two hands now, I still hone my skills with smaller tasks I recently built a wood turning lathe using a 1/2"makita corded drill. Even turns metal!Made my own portable router table from hardwood make most jigs and templates as I need them. Built a portable metal cutting jigsaw (Used an up turned old bosch sabre saw.)
What I'm trying to say is, don't get carried away by expensive power equiptment 'till you first cut your teeth on hand tools and the technics our fathers used. Stein.
Stein, I didn't get my 1st router till abt 1960 or so, so before that my mortises were done with hammer and chisel and auger drills with a brace and bit. I'm 63 and we lived on a farm in Missouri, and that's what we had to work with.
I recommended using a router because that's what everybody has today. I don't think anyone starting out today is going to mortise and hang enough doors by hand to even approach the level of skill you and I have in doing that, nor will they ever need it. If someone needs new doors in his house, it's the product that's important, not the process. The process which is important today is learning how to use the router for this task, with appropriate bit selection, constructing the right jig for the mortise, etc. The skills learned here then transfer to the next project, using today's tools.
Incidently, I've got my Yankee screwdriver sitting in a drawer and haven't used it since I got my 1st variable speed Makita drill motor. However, I do use the Yankee bits in the Makita, thereby blending tradition and modernity.
Are you in NYC? I used to make good money there about 30-35 yrs ago installing countertops and building cabinets in those tiny apartments on the upper Westside where brownstones were being converted. If you were there then, you were probably my competition.
Rob
Rob, I worked for 50 years in New york all five boroughs Started in '46, retired in'96. Yes, I worked in upper west side When they converted all those elevators in the city over to self service I think '47 to '55 or more
Installed tons of complete elevator shafts with baked enamel steel doors with the seven inch 'portholes All drilling and tapping and bracing to the rail clips to plumb up the frames, saddles and doors to very exacting measurements to lie in line withthe elevator's new Platforms (Called slings) the Doors we hung on Rixson door closers Which I bedded into the concrete or terrazzo floors.
I Started on my 16th birthday and after 16 years continued as a subcontractor installing all manner of doors
I also became a locksmith and installed all the builders hardware panic locks, door closers electric door openers (You name it ) Worked in several hospitals, Universitys museums tons of hotels includind The Plaza ,Sherry Netherland Empire State Chrysler Pierre U N All the Disney stores on and on.
The trip from and to New jersey and NY traffic each day was an ordeal, but nice to get away from the big apple each night Evenings and weekends were spent in my shop usually constructing some special piece of security hardware or master key ing all manor of locks for entire floors of office buildings
If you've read any of my posts, on knots, you probably read that my son lives here in Connecticut in my town and owns and operates his tool and die business If I run out of things to do , I hop over to his shop and grab some scrap metal and crating lumber And use his Lathe/drillpress/Bandsaw
Also he has automatic C N C milling machines to make lots of Helicopter and aircraft sheetmetal parts. One evening, He and I and my 16year old grandson designed and milled three beautiful signet rings using large stainless steel hex nuts
Oh, yes, I have a polishing and buffing station over there. Recently stripped, rewired/andpolished and lacquered a brass chandeliere for my daughter in law. Hobby is buying old tools clean/polish/ de rust/ sharpen and admire old planes chisels Yankee screwdrivers C clamps Never have enough .
Tell me what you do in your shop on your farm in Missouri I always wanted to rebuild old gasoline engines (One lungers) but they don't come cheap.
We have several county fairs over here and thats where I hang out also at the ox pulling events. Nice to converse with you Rob. I hope you'll send me a big rant just like this one. Cheers ED from Connecticut.
Edited 2/22/2004 10:03:45 PM ET by steinmetz
Hey Stein, I'm not on the Missouri farm any more. I'm in L.A. for the last 28 yrs. I was in NYC 1968-1975, the first 3 yrs working my way through law school doing stuff in apartments on the upper Westside. The only power tools I had were a 1/4" B&D drill motor and a Craftsman sabresaw, and a bunch of hand tools. Developers would take a beat up trashed 5 story brownstone and turn it into 10 apartments. The apartments would have a kitchen about 5' x 8' separated from the living/dining space by a wall about 36" high x 5" wide. I'd put a 2" "butcher block" counter top about 16" wide on the top of the wall for $75.00 plus the cost of the top (I got them from some place on the Bowery, maybe J. D. Brauer) and then put shelves on both sides, open shelves on the kitchen side and sliding plastic doors on the living side. I could net $300-$500 per job (e.g. one weekend, and usually untraceable cash) depending on whether I was dealing with the building owner or the apartment renter. I never did the heavy stuff you did, but there was a lot of money in doing things that everybody in Missouri could do for themselves, but people in NY didn't have a clue about. Also, you could get laid a lot, since many of the apartment dwellers were single females or ladies whose husbands worked late.
I loved NY. Why would you ever go back to N.J. in the evenings? Especially when you were young?
Rob
Rob, born in NY, moved to NJ in 60's Still love NY, but only get to visit rarely.
Now in Ct ('2000)If you remember the Bowery, it's now mostly Chinese Did you ever see little Italy or Canal Street?
I remember taking my son to watch the wreckers demolish old buildings in preporation to building the world trade center building. Later watched the whole construction of the excavation, the 'bathtub', foundation, ironwork etc. (The whole thing)
After it was built and occupied, I worked on a few offices Forgot what I did (doors and locks probably.) The area where The twin towers were built used to be called Radio Row
When I was a teen, I used to browse all the surplus stores and buy radio parts cheap Great place to head to whilst playing hookey from High School. One day, I ran into my Dad down there. He was supposed to be working, but played hooky too. (That remained our little secret for years)
Another good place to play hooky, was Times Square where you could watch cheap 25 cent movies and rub shoulders with winos and drifters /bums (Later called 'Homeless')
When I was courting my wife back in the 60's, I surprised her and took her for a ride on the old third avenue 'El'
It was the last day running and they tore it down that same week. Needless to say, She probably thought to herself, "What am I getting in to?") Next June we'll be celebrating our 50th anniversary, so she'll be reminded of that trip and other dumb things I did. I remember J D Bruner's on the Bowery
One of the contractors I subbed for had a storefront cabinet shop nearby on Allen St.
I used to buy all my electrical stuff down there. Also nearby, my wholesale locksmith supplies.
At the lower end of the Bowery, (Chinatown) theres an intersection called Chatham Square
I remember in the early 30's there was a massive terminal for the overhead elevated railroad trains with steep covered stairsleading up to the station. Fare was five cents on the 'El'
Still take my grandson to check out The Big Apple (We saw the Twin Towers about three weeks before the disaster)
Worked in The Dakota Apartments a few times and met Humpfry Bogart's widow Lauren Bacall,(She still lives there.)
Even worked for Mrs Gary Cooper, although she was away at the time (I saw Gary's photo next to her bed , (With a lit candle alongside it.)
Installed Gold plated locks on all her doors (Park avenue penthouse)
Stein. Keep in touch Rob (Unless I've bored you to tears?)
Edited 2/23/2004 11:15:00 AM ET by steinmetz
Edited 2/23/2004 11:21:28 AM ET by steinmetz
Yup, hangin around times square...and going over to Tad's Steak House for a $1.19 steak......
BG,were you one of those 'Homeless? LOL. Can't remember the name of the joint next to the 42nd st subway stairs that sold 15 cent hamburgers. That place is now A big Disney Store. Tad's was a little more East on the other side of the street (High class clientele ate there.) Stein
Wow, 15 CENT HAMBURGERS...never did that one in Manhattan.....White Castle...Sliders? Toodle House?
We moved back to CT. in '57'....my father worked there into the '80's'....
BG, Early '60's MacDonalds first hamburgers AND fries were each 15 cents in the early '60,s
The fries were thinner, softer and fried in beef fat. They were the best, until the Food Politzi pushed for changes in the animal fats we've been ingesting for 2000 years or more
Sometime in the 80's, they started using Vasolene and the fries were fatter, harder, and tasted like pencil shavings.
Their burgers tasted as good as any stainless steel diner's
But No! Somewhere in the '70's, they switched to the" All roadkill meat patties" they serve today.
In the late 30's,White Castle ran a coupon special in the local newspaper each Tuesday: Present this coupon and buy 6 White Castle for a Quarter.
Fortunatly for me, I had a newspaper Route, so I removed entire pages to get a good supply.and not arouse any suspicion from my subscribers. (They were all tightwads anyway)
Instead of the occasional dime or Quarter tip,, They gave me deposit milk or soda bottles to drag to the store for the lousy 3 cents (Milk) 5 cents For Quart soda bottles bottles
I was a strong kid and could run up the five story apartment building's stairs with no sweat,
BUT, I had to lug a stack of 50 Newspapers as well as the ^%$#@%$#^ bottles, It's a wonder I didn't get a ^%$@%$#^ hernia to boot. Stein.
When I was in my twenties, My buddy and I would drive to four or five White Castles and try to out eat each other inout of burgers I had the winning title at twenty.
After I was drafted, I lost my taste for stuff like that and gorgedmyself on S%$# on a shingle on cold spaghetti in those little cans
Edited 2/23/2004 10:29:44 PM ET by steinmetz
Stein, Brings back fond memories and aspirations. Please don't lie to people...the Hamburg's were 15 cents, Fries were 10 cents. at McD's in the early 60's....lol. I worked there making fries and flipping burgers for a short period of time.
We were a bit luckier with the paper route. The New Haven Registar was 46 cents a week and therefore we usually got 50 cents from customers and told to keep the change. In the poor neighborhoods they would tip you an additional 25 cents for the paper.... Never had anyone offer a bottle desposite as a tip...guess we were lucky....lol.
When it came to gorging oneself in the New Haven area....the dream was a large sausage Apizza from Pepe's....which was huge....yes, I was one of the few who could consume such an amount....
B G, Ahah! you're from New Haven? I'm in Newington.
How the heck do I get to the New Haven flea market? Rt 15 south and?, 95 south and?, 91 south and?
Im only here in CT three years. This was the coldest one I can remember.
Only flea I like is in Wallingford. Others swear by N H.
Speaking of fast food, how do you like D'Angello's Steak and Cheese Sandwich? Better than Philly Cheese Steak I think.
In the 40's, when pizza first appeared in New York, it was pronounced AR-Beets Had to find an Italian neighborhood to get one. Slices came much later (I think at drive-in movies?
I make Pizza at home and get pretty good results. I even built a wooden 'Peel' to slide them in and out of the oven.
After the first or second attempt, I started to build the pizzas on a sheet of parchment paper (no stick, no clean up, easy in, easy out.
Once while we had about 8 or 10 family members over, I decided to surprise them with a nice pepperoni and cheese pie.
I slid the peel under the bubbling pie and carried it over to the living room doorway and announced, "SURPRISE!"... PLOP! (Right onto the floor upside down)
Instead of saying Ah- Beets, I said. AH- $#!I !
Stein.
Edited 2/24/2004 11:26:27 AM ET by steinmetz
Stein,
What a scream....pizza upside down...hope is fell on an oriental rug....lol
Apizza is pronounced A-beets...and New Haven is the best...there is a place in little Italy in NY that is the first in the country. Pepe's was opened in a garage and interested the Yale students....who would play catch with the flat pans afterwards (aka Fresbie).
I'm up in the Boston area so I don't know about the flea markets in the NH area. I was in the Wallingford area last week and on Saturday went to one near the playhouse...is that one you were referring to?
I have made pizza every Saturday night for the last 20 years...my family loves my philly cheesesteak pizza...second would be my garlic chicken pizza. I'm a much better cook than wood butcher...lol..
Don't know about D'angelo's cheese steak....but if you haven't been to Pat's on 9th and Race in Philly....you haven't lived yet.....lol
BG, you were right near that flea market Saturday too! It was threatening rain, so most dealers opted out.
My other son lives in Arlington, so I,m familiar with Boston IE; Legal Seafood/ Legal Seafood etc etc
When he attended M I T, he marched me all over town including MIt and the COOP (great books)
He,at the time was excelling in computer Graphics, and hung out in the A I Lab. That was the time John Handcock Bldg. was blowing out it's windows., His Frat house was onCommonwealth Ave. In an old embassy type five story building. He had me there one weekend planing and refitting every door in the building some of which hadn't closed in 30 years due to 12 coats of paint and poor maintanence
I started on the upper floor, and made my way down to the basement where, They utilized an old steel vault to store and protect their 'valuables' (Read Beer)
Once, in New York, I installed some 9ft sliding or bifold doors for I. M. PEI Nice man.
Getting back to pizza, I'm having trouble getting a thin crust ,for as soon as I roll it and stretch the dough, it shrinks and gets thick again. My grandson (16) Helps me with my new approach. While I streatch the dough and hold it down with ten fingers out stretched, He quickly imbeds a large steel hoop firmly into the dough
It is actually the outer race from a large ballbearing and heavy enough to hold down the dough. After spreading the sauce and adding cheese, pepperoni, a few spices and oil, it goes into the oven then I remove the ring. Stein
Edited 2/24/2004 5:56:03 PM ET by steinmetz
Stein,
Dough is key to a great pizza....I have more books and ten times as many years making dough than I have making sawdust. Working dough for a pizza is a bit easier...you have to let it rest, and it needs to be at room temp. You spread it with your finger tips....tips only....bouncing and pushing lightly outward (this creates little air pockets in the dough)...take what it gives you and let it rest...after about 10-15 minutes stretch it some more. You'll find it can stretch much larger than you've ever imagined. It's best to stretch dough on wood...wood has a bit of tooth...
Hopefully, you'll ignore my advice about the dough and continue having fun with your grandson....great memories.
I'll never forget the day my wife and I dropped our son off at the frat house at Purdue....they had spent a week cleaning the place before parents were allowed to arrive...and there was still girls undies and broken beer bottles in the corners. I got her out of there as fast as I could....whew!
I did misspeak before, it was the Saturday before last that I went over to the flea market near the playhouse. My aunt lives over near Quinnipiac U. (sp?)
Stein, not only did McD use beef fat, but they used Maine potatoes, of which there are now not enough to go around for a big chain. The present potato was developed at UC Davis, is called an Oregon Chipper, and weighs about 3 lbs. When I'm East on business, I bring back 10 or 15lbs. of Maine potatoes. We have a dedicated French Fryer filled with Crisco with some beef fat for flavor. The other original McD trick is after you cut the fries, wash them in running water and put them in the basket and dip them in very hot water for about 15 sec. The water is not boiling, but almost. Then bounce the excess water off on a newspaper, and into the hot Crisco. Then you have the original McD fries, or as close as you can get at home.
I've done thousands of those 'Bit Key' locks using a template and a long 1/2" router bit
The template is just a rectangular sheet of 1/4' ply rimmed with four 1/4" lattice strips The lock's face width being 3/4" and the height being 4", your router base 6 " and router bit 1/2"requires the inner edges of the lattices to be wider on all four sides by exactly 2-3/4' the exact full opening will be 6-1/4" wide and 9-1/2" high (The four strips can be shorter by 1/4"each.)
The four strips of lattice will be arraigned like a picture frame who's inside dimensions are wider than the lockface ('Scalp')by exactly 2-3/4" at top , bottom, right side, left side.
When you apply the lattice, use 8 pieces of wood cut square at exactly 2-3/4" They ,when abutted to the lock face, will act as posioners to apply the lattice strips. Use a square when you tack the strips to the board.
When all four strips are attached, use router with 1/2"wide x 1-1/2" long cutter to rout through the template. Draw center marks (Locators) at the top and bottom of the 3/4" x 4" through hole. Draw a center line at the lock location on the door's edge (At the correct height)
The center of the knob should be 38" above the floor. Line up the two center marks and tack the template to the door (Nail through the lattice!)
Set the router bit to cut roughly 1/8+ deep and lock the bit in place. You can try this first on some scrap wood to find the exact depth.
After routing for the scalp, you must rout the mortise, BUT apply two spacer sticks across the top and bottom inside edges of the lattices and two vertical thin strips of wood to the insides ofthe lattice edges.(I use wood coffee stirrers)
Now rout in increments till your 1-1/2" bit can go no deeper. Change to the longer 1/2" bit and rout out the rest ( IN INCREMENTS) This will leave the area needed to attach the two screws. (Pre drill the screw holes to avoid splitting the wood) I slant the top hole up a bit and the bottom hole down a bit)
If you have two routers, you can rout out all the scalps on each door with the 1-1/2" bit ,then use the same nailholes to return the template to the exact location for further cuts using the "filler strips' Finally, use a small sharp chisle to square out the rounded corners. G' Luck. Stein.
Note:
After first attaching template and before removing to the next door, tack to the back of the template two vertical strips of 2/8" x 6" locator strips so when applying to next door it will align correctly.ED.
Edited 2/20/2004 11:50:27 PM ET by steinmetz
Edited 2/21/2004 12:00:45 AM ET by steinmetz
Where do you get router bits that cut 4" deep? I think that the method you describe is for a different lockset, so perhaps I have it wrong. It sounded to me that the fellow wanted to install the old "Yale" type mortise locks, and I assumed that they were they type that I've seen here in CT. Those locks were manufactured all through the mid & late 1800s and require a 3 1/2" - 4" deep mortise.
John
I've never found a 1/2" router bit > 4.5" OAL, and it wasn't a spiral bit. I do have a spiral bit, 1/2", which a friend gave me, from a $2500 european mortiser he bought. It's not carbide, just HSS, and I haven't found a need for it yet. His mortiser only turns about 4000 rpm, so I'm a bit leery about using this bit at 20,000 rpm+ in a handheld router.
John, I,m in Newington and the lock he describes is a bit key lock usually made by P F Corbin or Yale or Sargent (All Connecticut Yankees like us)
I think the lock you describe is a cylinder front door set ( Mortice cylinder lock)
By the way, the instructions I offered will apply with either type lock( just different dimensions). The important element is the 2-3/4" locator blocks.which work with 1/2"bits plus 6" router base.
Any rectangular mortice can be made using these simple blocks and the template I described. No need to spend big bux.
Buy American made tools and make your own jigs/fixtures/templates/guides
Stein.
Edited 2/21/2004 3:23:25 PM ET by steinmetz
Edited 2/21/2004 3:28:33 PM ET by steinmetz
Dear Stein,
I must not understand your instructions, then. The locks that I am referring to are all interior door locks. Baldwin still makes a similar unit. I haven't done one in a while, but as I recall the mortise required is over 3" deep in fact I'm pretty sure that its closer to 4". In any event, the PC mortiser is a very nice unit, US made I beleive, very consistant and would be a whole lot safer than a plunge router with 3" of bit hanging out. I wouldn't want to try that on a door that is hung, and I do this stuff for a living.
John
djhawk, the 1/2 " bit I use, is made by Bosch .It has a 1/2 " shaft and is four inhes long Roughly three inches extend past the collet chuck.
It's number is 85251 m It is a straight bit( not spiral) you can SAFELY use it in a 1/2" capacity router, but take incremental cuts, (Say 1/4' at a time.?)
Over the years, I've installed jillions of mortice locksets using these Bosch bits. Since they'll only penetrate about 3-1/2", you'll have to use a spade bit to eat out the remaining material By the way, When the pocket is mortised, hold the lockset even and directly across the top of the mortice With a thin pencil, mark through the hubs and keyholes on both sides of the door to indicate the area to bore for the spindle and key.
I just use the router with the shorter bit and slowly handplunge into the door, (centered on the marks) then rotate to enlarge the holes. They dont have to be perfect, as the escutcheons cover them anyway.
Before marking and drilling for the escutcheon plates, temporarally attach the spindle and knobs through the plates and screw the knobs tight enough to hold the plates in the correct alignment
If you are installing new doors on existing jambs, place some masking tape on jamb and door face outside the existing strikeplate and engage lock into strike ,then mark the new lock's top line onto the jamb. Next, close door and carry over that mark to the door Stein
Edited 2/21/2004 3:01:10 PM ET by steinmetz
Back in the old days (15 years ago or so) most commercial general contractors had a mortise machine for locks. Now most doors are bought pre-mortised.
Before you plop down a grand or screw up your door, check with some old GC's to see if they will rent or sell their old one, I'll bet they haven't used it in years.
Norse
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