Replies

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 31, 2007 07:31pm | #1

   A lot depends on the particular evironmental aspects present where you are spraying. Temperature and humidity changes and lacquer is very sensitive to both. Here is some info that should get you started but you should test your spray out on cardboard to fine tune the ratio each day.

   http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/RetarderIBIB.html

   If you are new to spraying, let me suggest you purchase Charron's Spray Finishing from Amazon. It will give you lots of info about types of finishes, mixing and thinning and also, the techniques and skills you need.

   Howie.........
1. 
   MapleDave | Jul 31, 2007 10:53pm | #2

   Thanks for the link Howard. That was helpful. I'll look for that book on spray finishing as well.

   Yes, it certainly does seem day to day with lacquer doesn't it. Temperature, humidity, regulator pressure etc etc. I'm still trying to get myself dialed in to know what to change in order to fix a problem. Right now I think a bit of retarder would help things to stay wet for a bit longer.

    There was an earlier post on spraying lacquer that I found quite useful. The comments by one of the posters (Kevin?) on the retarder Butyl Cellulosolve made me think I should add it with a teaspoon rather than a ladle.

   Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

   David

    

    

1. 
   craigclick | Aug 01, 2007 08:05am | #3

   2% retarder is normal for conditions of ambient humidity.Because NC is an evaporative finish, subsequent coats blend into former coats. With that in mind, you can use 360/400 w/d sandpaper between coats to smooth raised grain, orange peel, etc. You can also pad it, using cheese cloth, cotton wool, etc, inside of a clean rag from a well-used cotton t-shirt, to make a fist-sized pad saturated in the NC. NC has its tricks, but learned it's a very versatile finish.

1. 
   MapleDave | Aug 01, 2007 06:34pm | #4

   Thanks for the information Craig. I picked up some of the retarder yesterday from Mohawk and will add it in the concentration you suggest.

    I'm a bit rattled by the warnings on the label though. I'm not planning to put this on my Corn Flakes but the warnings make me feel I should be wearing a Hazmat suit if I'm just looking at the container. Highly Toxic, Do not get in contact with skin.... I wear a good respirator but now I'm wondering if I need one of those tyvek spray suits. 

    Thanks also for the padding technique for the NC lacquer. I'll have to give it a try sometime.

   David

    

1. 
   BruceT999 | Aug 03, 2007 05:26pm | #8

   Don't take those warning labels too seriously. They are written by lawyers. Just ventilate the room well.BTW, you can smell Butyl Cellosolve in Formula 409 household spray cleaner.BruceT

2. 
   MapleDave | Aug 03, 2007 08:47pm | #10

   Thanks for easing my mind a bit BruceT.

    There is so much CYA info on these labels that you never know if it is really dangerous or just well covered from lawsuits. I always err on the side of caution just to try to avoid having something important fall off.

   David

3. 
   BruceT999 | Aug 03, 2007 09:17pm | #11

   "I always err on the side of caution just to try to avoid having something important fall off."Try not to spill any on your pants then.By the way, dry over-spray can be melted in by spraying the whole surface with butyl acetate or other medium to slow drying ketone or ester solvent[acetone and MEK are too fast drying]. A slow, strong lacquer thinner might work too, but not as well because most formulations have weaker diluents blended in to cut cost.
   BruceT

4. 
   MapleDave | Aug 04, 2007 07:53pm | #12

   Thanks for the advice BruceT.

    One of the things I am liking about NC lacquer is that it seems like a very fixable finish should anything go wrong . I'll keep your trick in mind for dealing with dry overspray.

   David

5. 
   Kevin | Aug 04, 2007 08:21pm | #14

   NC is, IMHO, easily the most versatile and repairable film-forming finish ever invented by mankind. There are any number of tougher, more durable, more moisture/chemical resistant finishes out there and each definitely has it's place. But none of them match NC for sheer manipulatibility and repairability.

   The overspray trick works extremely well. But it doesn't end there. One of the beauties of NC is that you can sand out a run or sag, mist over it with a blend of MEK/Acetone and it will virtually disappear. By far the best blend I've found for this is a blend of MEK, PM Acetate and a splash of NC. It will produce a flawlessly perfect repair on runs, sags, orange peel, overspray, etc.

   BTW, the padding trick mentioned by Craig is another great way to repair NC in certain circumstances, particularly on edges and corners where a minimal footprint is needed. In the middle of a table top it wouldn't work as well, in my experience.

6. 
   MapleDave | Aug 04, 2007 10:58pm | #15

   Kevin,

     Thanks for your contribution to my lacquer education. I can't tell all you guys how much this information helps me. It is great to have a forum like this to get expert advice so easily.

    David

    

7. 
   Kevin | Aug 05, 2007 01:28am | #16

   You're most welcome, Dave.

   I think I can safely speak for the rest and say that it's why we're here, at least in this folder.

   I remember very well when I was coming up as a budding finisher and how the old-timers I worked with didn't want to divulge any of their tricks. So I have always gone out of my way to divulge everything I know... some might say I do it to a fault at times. But I figure too much information is better than not enough.

2. 
   tmaxxx | Aug 02, 2007 09:59am | #5

   im guessing cause of the celcius use your in Canada.  where abouts?  i just picked up a finishing dvd from Mowhawk finished.  wicked dvd.  it can help you and the guys at the store here seem to be really knowledgable.

   Tmaxxx

   Urban Workshop Ltd

   Vancouver B.C.

   cheers.  Ill buy.

1. 
   MapleDave | Aug 02, 2007 09:07pm | #6

   Thanks for the heads up on the Mohawk DVD Tmaxxx. I'll have to look out for it next time I am in the Mohawk store. I'm in the Vancouver area as well so I'm guessing we are visiting the same store on Kent ave. I've only been in there a couple of times but you are right, the guys who work there seem to know their stuff.

   David

    

1. 
   tmaxxx | Aug 03, 2007 04:25am | #7

   I was having a similar issue a few weeks ago and they told me to thin it 25-30%.  i thought that was huge but they said its ok.  aparently mfgs recomend a max of 10% to keep it below allowable voc ratings or somethin like that.Tmaxxx

   Urban Workshop Ltd

   Vancouver B.C.

   cheers.  Ill buy.

1. 
   MapleDave | Aug 03, 2007 08:35pm | #9

   Tmaxxx,

    The guy at Mohawk recommended 10 -15% of the volume of lacquer thinner added and it says that on the label. I think the recommendations of ~2% are per total volume, lacquer +thinner. I figure I had it around that concentration and it seemed to make enough difference to give me the slightly slower evaporation time I was after. I just didn't want to have sags around the vertical edges from adding too much retarder.

   Thanks for your comments.

   David

    

1. 
   Kevin | Aug 04, 2007 08:05pm | #13

   I just didn't want to have sags around the vertical edges from adding too much retarder.

   That's certainly a valid concern when using retarders. It's one of the primary reasons why I don't use lacquer thinner blends and instead use a blend of MEK and PM Acetate. The MEK flashes fast and helps prevent sags, leaving the PM Acetate to aid flow out. MEK would work similarly with other retarders of course. I prefer PM Acetate in part because it's a relatively mild retarder and thus is easier, IMHO, to fine-tune to ambient conditions than other much slower retarders. But those are my personal preferences. Other finishers with as much or more experience get just as good of results using other retarders.