I know this may sound crazy, but I saw a pallet when I was at a store today and couldn’t figure out what type of wood the pallet was made of. So I grabbed it and brought it home, it looks a little exotic. It is a really hard wood, very curly knots. I think it looks like oak, but it seems that the “stripes” in it are wider than the striations in oak. The striations in this wood are more elongated oval, if that makes any sense. I did run it through the planner and I wet the face to bring the grain out more for the pictures. Thanks for any help, and sorry for so many pictures , couldn’t decide on one.
Replies
Mr knee.
It looks somewhat like what we in Australia call Hairy Oak (because of the trees hair like bark). Except not dark enough.
The sap wood is about that colour, but their is not usually that much of it.
http://mockmickey.com/timber/hairy%20oak.htm
Ben
Thanks Ben for the response, but like you, I am not convinced it is the hairy oak. The website said itsreddy orange color which this isn't. I am color blind, but my wife has looked at this wood, and she told me that around some of the knots it is very pinkish. Thanks again Ben...
Edited 8/6/2003 10:47:55 PM ET by rodknee
I don't know what it is but that figure is something to be treasured and used for something special. What a find! I bought a board that looks something like that yesterday (only very much a red tint) from which I'll make some drawer fronts. Given the wood you usually use does this stuff feel very dense?
Thanks Ian for your reply, and yes this wood is very dense..
Rod, it would be helpful if you had some clue as to where it came from. This is the wildest of guesses (without looking at the end grain under magnification), but if this is a Southeast Asian timber, my opening hypothesis would lead me to first try and verify whether it is a member of the Proteaceae...possibly from one of the genera more closely allied to silky-oak. It doesn't appear to be silky-oak (Grevillea robusta) proper, but there are a number of species not too distantly related to silky- oak spread all over Southern Asia, from India into southern China...and many of them are utility timbers you would expect to find in a pallet. Most of them have very dominant rays , like the true oaks (Quercus), but the uniformity and pattern (placement) of the rays tends to be very "orderly"...in other words, almost unreal or lacking the imperfection and variation found in the anatomy of most organic things.
The possibility also remains that it might actually be a true oak (Quercus.) Tropical members of this genus are not ring-porous and this sometimes leads the woodworker to conclude that, despite the large rays, they couldn't possibly be a true oak...when in fact they are. Another candidate might be the southern beech (Nothofagus), but I don't think that's likely.
Edited 8/6/2003 9:39:35 PM ET by Jon Arno
Jon, Thank you for such an in depth response. You may be on track with the silky or true oak. I mean I have no formal knowledge of timber such as your self, but from your description of the two it seems as if you are on the right track. I have added a couple of pictures of the end grain which I did wet to make the grain stand out a little bit more. And to my untrained eye there does not seem to be any pores in the end grain. The pallet was in a stack of pallets at State Electric Supply Company, an electrical supply store. I'm not sure what came on it. thanks again
Ps. I also put a side shot that has not been planned.
Not sure what it is; it looks like red oak to me but that doesn't mean much LOL. However from the look of those growth rings I get the impression it may have come from a plantation where the trees were fertilized--some of those rings look like they're well over an eighth thick and I'm not used to seeing that in first-growth wood.
Have you tasted the wood? Real oaks have a lot of tannin and you can usually taste it.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I was in Bali last Feb, and this stuff looks like what they call Palm wood. What I saw there was darker, but they use a dark stain on everything.
Dave, it could be a palm (I didn't give the monocots a thought.) If this were the case, it's doubtful the flecks on the face would be rays. Can't tell from the photos, if that makes sense. But the palms are easy to ID by examining the smooth cut end grain. They have a unique anatomy relative to dicot hardwoods. Their vascular tissues (pores) are grouped in bundles and the fibers are extremely coarse.
A few of the palms are decorative, because of their unusual figure and color...But in my experience (which isn't much when it comes to palms), they're miserable to work with...as if the wood was made up of strands of hemp rope glued together.
You should see some of the things they make with it. I have some chop sticks I brought back with me, if I can find them, I'll get a pic.
rodkee
A key would be to know what might have been on the pallets. Any idea?
Stan,
All I know that would have came on it would have been electrical supplies for State Electric Supply Company. It was just in a big pile of pallets outside.
Very interesting looking wood. It sure looks a lot like Red Oak. But, enough different that it looks exotic. Especially those rough cut pictures. The little resin grain things that are so typical of Red Oak look much too large to actually be Red Oak.
I occasionally find interesting wood in pallets too. I recently acquired part of a pallet runner (one of our woodworkers got the lion's share) at work. The wood looks a lot like Brazilian Mahogany but it's quite a bit heavier than any Mohagany that I've ever worked with. It's bone dry too. So, I know it's not just wet Mahogany. Nice flame figure in part of it too. To the best of my knowledge the pallet originated somewhere in southeast asia or maybe polynesia.
Regards,
Kevin
Looks more like Burr Oak, which around here (SE MN), we also sometimes call "Black Oak" or "Swamp Oak". If you ever drive I35 between Minneapolis and Iowa, take a short detour on I90 east...you'll see some very nice stands of Burr Oak.
Alot of the Burr Oak is old growth, because it's usually so knarled that it's not good for firewood or lumber...except pallets...
But as someone else said the wide growth rings throw it into a whole 'nother league.
Johnny, I think you and the Big Lizard aren't reading those end grain photos correctly. What you're assuming to be "rings" (growth increments) are probably ray cross sections. If you look at the edge, where the end grain meets the face of the board, you'll notice that the light colored bands across the end grain line up with the ray flecks on the face of the board. Also, I don't see any evidence on the face of the board to suggest that the wood is ring-porous, i.e., no "open pored" figure. Lack of ring porosity (open figure) pretty much rules out any of the temperate oaks: such as our native red or white oaks.
Unfortunately, the end grain shots aren't clear enough or of high enough magnification to see the anatomical features that would help identify it. What you'd want to look for on the end grain ( in the case of a tropical true oak) would be pore chains radiating out from the pith (center) of the tree toward the bark...appearing sort of like the rising bubbles in a glass of champagne...But I really think the better bet is that this wood comes from a member of the Proteaceae. The rays appear to be even more dominant than in the true oaks and the anatomy (what I can see of it) has that "ordered" look I described earlier...But doing wood ID via the internet is like performing appendectomies by mail. I'm really just guessing here.
Proteaceae
What's the common name...I'm assuming it's some sort of tropical hardwood?
You're right about identifiying wood and the internet. You really have to heft it and smell it.
Johnny, the Proteaceae is an old family, now found mostly in Southeast Asia, but it is also represented by a few species in the New world...mostly in South America. It goes back far enough in time that it was probably part of the flora of Antarctica when that continent was situated in warmer latitudes and was connected to both Australia and South America.
It's not a heavy weight in terms of being a major source of timber, like the pines, oaks, lauans, etc. but there are a few. Probably the best known is silky-oak (lacewood.) Macadamia (of nut fame) is also in this family.
At first blush it looks for all the world like a Casuarina (or Allocasaurina, since some of the 'she-oaks' have recently been moved into a new genus). It's an unlikely wood to be making pallets from down here in the centre of its native range, but maybe there are plantations in other parts of the world? The colour is a bit pale for most of our native Casuarinas, but colour has to be one of wood's more variable characteristics. The quarter figure is VERY reminiscent of a Casuarina, which I guess prompted the guess of an earlier post of 'Hairy oak' (Allocasuarina inophloia). This is a very small tree of north Queensland; bizarrely huge medullary rays, extremely dense, and much prized by turners and makers of small things. MOST unlikely to turn up in pallets, but who knows!
I agree with your Dx on the endgrain, Jon, those are almost certainly the x-sections of the medullary rays, since you can see them continue round onto the flat face in several instances.
Can't think of any of the 'oaks' of the proteaceae group that have medullary rays of that size (Silky oaks, Banksias, Macadamias etc.). Also they are nearly all light to medium density, whereas the Casuarinas are very dense. None of the dipterocarps I've seen had huge medullary rays, but my sample size is about 3.
Once again, shows how hard it is to ID wood on the "looks like...." principle!
Cheers,
IW
Thanks to all who has helped in trying to identify this wood. So, would it be a safe bet to say it is a foreign cousin to our oaks? After I got home from work I planned the rest of the boards, 3 chunky 1" x 4" x 4.5' and 7 slim 1/4" x 4 x 4.5'. There were a few of the slim ones that had beutiful contrasting Very light and very dark wood in it and big curly knots mixed with tiny circular knots. I can understand that trying to identify wood online would be frusterating, but nevertheless I do thank all of you for helping out. I attached a couple of shots of the front and back of one knot and a shot of a little line of small knots which i thought was interesting. The only problem I have now is that I don't really know what to make with it.....
Rod
Rod, as for what to do with it, think a small chest of drawers where the drawer fronts are veneered with the figure. An insert into the top of a jewellery box, etc.
IW, one of the she-oaks also crossed my mind, but like you say, they tend to have a more orange-red color...The anatomy would seem to make it another possible candidate, though.
As for the density of members of the Proteaceae, some of the Indian species are moderately heavy, as is one of the South American species sometimes called "fishtail oak", but your Aussie silky-oak is much softer. Our Forest Products Laboratory quotes its average specific gravity as 0.51, which is identical to our black walnut...but I've seen samples of silky-oak that were noticeably softer...Although, at the time, I wasn't certain of the ID. It might have been your Queensland lacewood, which is closely related.
You're right about she-oak being planted all over the world now. We call it "Australian pine" in Florida, where it is used as a beach cultivar. Having more than once stepped on a few of its hard, cone-like fruits with my bare feet, I'd like to ship this species back to you...maybe trade you back for our radiata pine. :O)
Kevin, if you're sure your "mystery mahogany" comes from Polynesia, it's probably one of the timbers in the Dipterocarpaceae family...most likely one of the woods in the lauan genus (Shorea) or possibly a relative like apitong in one of the other Dipterocarpaceae genera. They are almost all vaguely Mahogany-like in general appearance. The apitong timbers tend to be more resinous (gummy) than the lauans...so that helps in IDing them, but it's not easy to seperate them below the genus level.
There are literally hundreds of species in the dipterocarp family and many of them are important timber sources.
Yeah... I thought about it being somehow related to Luan. Except for the slight figure in this wood, the grain is very similiar to Luan. I'm not totally positive about where it came from. The woodworker who ended up with the vast majority of the pieces ( 2 long chunks from an 8' pallet) is the one who says it's from that part of the world.
This stuff is a deep, rich reddish brown, very much like true Mahogany. Most, although not all, of the Luan I've seen tends to be less red and lighter in color. The thing that is most surprising to me about this wood is how heavy it is! This stuff is significantly heavier than any Luan I've ever worked with... and I've worked with solid Luan stock before. In fact now that I think about it... it's heavier than any true Mahogany I've worked with. It's from the core of the tree too (I can tell by the growth rings). Isn't the very core of most trees somewhat lighter in weight than the other heartwood due to it's being less dense as a result of faster initial growth? I would assume that would mean it is usually somewhat lighter by volume for the same reasons, n'est pas? I'm just guessing here...
Just by way of a rough comparison... This chunk of mystery wood is heavier in weight than a comparable chunk of Black Walnut. How much heavier is hard to say 'cause I don't have a chunk of Black Walnut of the same size with which to give a more accurate comparison. But, this stuff is very heavy! Definitely not gummy, either.
All in all it's a very interesting piece of wood. I wish I had more of it.
Regards,
Kevin
Kevin, being heavier than black walnut wouldn't be a major challenge for some of the species in the lauan genus. There are about 70 species involved and they range in density from about that of basswood to harder than white oak. Most of the genuine mahoganies are relatively soft (in a range from slightly below that of our native cherry up to about that of black walnut, or perhaps a little more for a couple of the African species.) Also, some of the lauans (Shorea) are quite red or brownish-red in color (dark red meranti, for example) and apitong tends to have a warm reddish hue.
The "annual rings" you mention are a bit of a surprise. Most of these tropical lauans don't have this feature, because the climate where they grow causes them to maintain continuous growth (no periods of dormancy)...But this isn't always the case. Parts of India and the interior uplands of Indochina experience dry seasons that cause variation in growth rate, which produces woods that are somewhat ring-porous.
AS, for the density of the wood at the center of the log, this is immature wood tissue and it is usually sort of soft and punky...but ordinarily the heartwood (between this pithy core and the outer sapwood) is the densest part of the log. It is denser than the sapwood because it is impregnated with gums, resins and other extractives. The antiseptic properties of some of these extractives is also why the heartwood of most species tends to be more decay resistant than the sapwood.
AS, for the density of the wood at the center of the log, this is immature wood tissue and it is usually sort of soft and punky...but ordinarily the heartwood (between this pithy core and the outer sapwood) is the densest part of the log.
Yeah, that's what I thought. On this chunk of wood it doesn't seem to be any softer than the rest of the heartwood.
Thanks for the feedback!
Regards,
Kevin
If the color varies from white to orange/red I would guess Padauk, which has a course grain and is fairly heavy. I think it is from India. Some Padauk I have used has a similar appearance to white oak.
Robert
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