Dear All,
I want to wish all my fellow Americans, and all the people around the world who appreciate the gift of Freedom a very Happy Independence Day. It is a gift that has been and continues to be paid for in blood. For our Independence Day, I will be taking my four little ones to a local cemetery to plant some flags on veterans’ graves. I want my children to know that Freedom is not cheap, nor should it be taken for granted. I want them to know that some kids Daddys’ and now Mommys’ are never coming home. They went away, so that we could enjoy the Freedoms that do. We will then go home, burn some stuff on the grill, blow off some fireworks and have a big time! A bit solemn, I suppose, but I want them to know that there were others that came before them. Others who chose to die, rather than give in to tyranny. Thank you to all our veterans, past and present! Thank you for what you have done for all of us! Happy Independence Day!
Best,
John
Replies
Yes. It should not be taken for granted- or be "given" to some . Have a good day.
I agree. It is not a gift, it is a natural right of all people everywhere.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
It is NOT a natural right, it is taken and held by force, by the blood of those who hold it most dear. Were it a natural right, it would be the norm, the norm however, is tyranny.
A few favorite quotes:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. <!----><!----><!---->Liberty<!----><!----> is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin – 1759
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“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf” – Geo. Orwell
Please remember those "rough men" of today and in the past, on this highest day in the American calendar<!----><!----><!----><!---->
This Vet says "AMEN" To all of the above. Been there done that !Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
We are on the same page. The unacceptable starts when this freedom is seemingly freely conferred upon the undeserving, in the name of democracy.Philip Marcou
It is a natural right. Yes it must repeatedly be fought for but nontheless it is a right not a gift.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
No, you are wrong, anything that must be taken and held by constant force is not something you are naturaly entitled too, and it is no gift at all, it costs dearly. In fact, your birth and death are the only things that are "natural", all else, you create, take or grow. (read Rand, it will fix your altruistic leanings)
Your reasoning is a crock, just because it must be defended it is no less a right.
A quote from a document you may not have read " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
I much prefer it to Rand.
Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Dear D,
Oh sure, start quoting the Declaration Of Independence! Next you'll be spouting off about free speech and the Bill of Rights! Worse..... you may actually believe in and support the US Constitution! What's next?............. Believing in something? Then where will we be? :-)
I whole heartedly agree with your statement. there are those who would deny us our rights and it must be fought for, now, as in the past. Best,John
dgreen,
Ah! Free speech, gotta love it.
From my dictionary-- "Right: n. that to which one has a just claim."
If one has no way to defend such claim, then it's enjoyment is only a gift, bestowed upon one, by those who have power (gov't). As a gift, it may be rescinded at any time. Thus the need for a means of defending the right. Legislation regulates our rights, but an armed populace ensures that we keep them.
Regards,
Ray Pine
"If one has no way to defend such claim, then it's enjoyment is only a gift, bestowed upon one, by those who have power (gov't). As a gift, it may be rescinded at any time. Thus the need for a means of defending the right. Legislation regulates our rights, but an armed populace ensures that we keep them."
I prefer to avoid politics (and I'm pretty conservative in my views) but I fundamentally disagree with your statement above. I don't think an armed populace does anything near ensuring we get to keep our rights.
I'm not a history major so I'll ask when in the past 200 years has the armed populace come forward to ensure we keep our rights?
cheers.
ramblin'
Well, the revolution of '76 comes to mind. Actually, since then the threat posed by an armed populace has been enough of a deterrent to tyrannical tendencies. Only my opinion, you are entitled to yours as well.
Regards, Ray
Yup, I remember '76 but that's why I asked in the past two hundred years because I couldn't think of another instance since then.
In any event, the great thing is that we have the freedom to disagree and not have views/opinions forced on us.
Happy 4th.
Why yes, I have read it and committed it to memory. And as much as I love that document, (and have been shot at, and shot back in its defense), it is none the less a two hundred and thirty year old experiment balanced against six thousand years of recorded human history. A history in which tyranny has been the basis of basically all human interaction. Your “reasoning” is based on emotion and desire to view the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is. <!----><!----><!---->
Your “reasoning” is based on emotion and desire to view the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is. <!----><!----><!---->
Pretty ballsy statement considering you don't know me. Your'e full of cr*p. We are not going to agree on this so like I said lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
I would be interested in a nice lively debate with you on this subject that we both appear to have strong (to say the least) feelings about, I just don't think a woodworking forum is the proper place to do it. You seem to be passionate, reasonably well read and not thin skinned. I think we could have a very interesting exchange. Pick a forum more suited to politics or philosophy and I will meet you there and we will have at it so to speak.
In the meantime here's hoping we get to know each other better and I look forward to exchanging woodworking (mostly!) knowledge with you on this forum.
Looking forward to a mutually beneficial relationship.
Don
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
You may know me better than you think, my wonderful wife of 21 years, with agreement from our college age daughter, comments all the time on how full of cr*p I am! Agreed on the disagreement. It has been my observation that most arguments of this nature are really disagreements on the “meaning” of a word or phrase, less on the real issue itself. If you peel the onion back a few layers, there is more to agree about than not. And yes, I read a lot, maybe too much. But I still like <!----><!---->Rand<!---->, she was a little nuts, (OK, maybe a lot nuts), but she was spot on regarding the individual and his “rights”.
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Now, to the important differences, are you a refurbisher of old tools, or are you one of those new gadget types?? (note: <!----><!---->Lee<!----> <!---->Valley<!----><!----> and L-N both qualify as old)
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Amen, brother! Loved the Ben Franklin one!
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