I am seeeking a simplistic answer to a complicated question. What is a good hand plane to start off with? I’m a relatively new woodowrker and need some guidance in this direction. I do simple projects and build uncomplicated furniture. I need some guidance here if at all possible. thanx one and all.
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Replies
From one that is about a month ahead of you on the learning curve.....
I would suggest that if you can afford it at all, you would be best served by purchasing a plane that you can use right out of the box, like a #4 smoothing plane from either Lee Valley/Veritas or Lie Nielson.
Nothing is more frustrating than to try to use a tool that is simply crap until you spend hours "adjusting" it for myriad manufacturing defects. for example, any Stanley that hasn't been fettled by an expert comes to mind. I replaced my much fettled and hated Stanley (which I FINALLY got to work, sometimes) with a Veritas and couldn't be happier.
Next, ignore the purists and go get a Worksharp to sharpen the plane blade with - it's fast, easy, nearly foolproof, and gets you working really fast. And it's such an easy task to keep the blade sharp, that you do - making use of the plane much easier.
I must warn you, though. Once you get a plane that works, and see what wood really looks like, you will want - nay, you will NEED more planes.
I remain slightly opinionated in Kentucky,
Mike D
weelis
I do all my rough milling with power tools (jointer and planer), but all my prep and finish work, as well as shaping, etc... with hand tools. The most often used plane at my bench is a block plane. If you can afford it, I'd recommend getting a block plane ( I prefer the LN, but there are many) and also getting a #5 AND #4.
I'd also recommend a really good book on hand planes. "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack does an outstanding job of teaching about handplanes, their individual uses, as well as how to get the old, ratty yard sale ones, and especially the ones you'd find on ebay, working very well.
When you discover how much your woodworking will improve in both fit and finish, you will be hoarding hand planes by the dozens. Please be careful! :)
Jeff
To start off, I would recommend getting a number 4 smoothing plane as your first plane. The number 4 smoothing is excellent for general purpose flattening and smoothing. Although the planes from Veritas and Lie-Nielson are of premium quality, it is perhaps unreasonable to buy them sometimes. For example, a #4 from Veritas can sell for as much as $200 new and a plane from Footprint can be as low as $30 new. Once it is properlly tuned and you get a new, thicker A2 blade, it will perform like a champ. It may still not perform as good as the Veritas or Lie-Nielson but it is more than sufficiant for general use. As you progress deeper into woodworking, you will probably find that a bench plane like the #4 isn't enough for all purposes. At this point, a block plane and a larger jointer plane may nessesary. Just to give you a few places to start, Woodcraft.com and places like Sears(footprint) and LeeValley.com are just a few places that provide excellent tools. Good Luck
Wee,
"What is a good hand plane to start off with?"
See the picture: the answer is clearly visible.
Philip Marcou
P.S. The green one, third form left, size 51/2, not original colour, very old.
Edited 1/11/2008 4:24 am by philip
Philip,
Hmmmm, those strange lookin' thangs in your pic seem to lack the fine brass, dovetails and other attributes of proper planes. Are you selling so many of yourn that you yurself must make do with them inferior thangs in the pic?
But Weelis has good advice in the first two posts: an LV or LN are surely on the right section of the graph describing the law of diminishing returns for handplanes. The only question is: smoother of some size or a block plane. I confess I first got a block plane and sweated a a lot using it as a (very small) smoother. On the other hand, it did many small planing jobs for which a toted, knobbed tool was too big.
Why not get one of each? :-) That'll happen anyway, in time so why not now whilst costs are low and one is still alive and kicking?
Lataxe, slid nearly to the bottom of the slope these days.
Weelis,
It's not a very complicated question as long as understand what planes do. To differentiate, lets talk bench planes only (as opposed to block planes, specialty planes, etc.). Bench planes (#1-#8) are designed to make wood flat..that is all they do, flatten. The longer the plane the longer the board you can make flat. So a 3-4-5'long board can be made flatter, easier with a #7,#8 than with a #3,#4. The key difference between the 7/8 and the 3/4 is the length of the bench plane..longer is better...but unnecessary if your boards are shorter.
All Stanley and Stanley look alike planes have an adjustable mouth and chip breaker. By fooling around with them you can change the aggressiveness or fineness of the cut. You can also shape the blade to adjust the cut too. The point here is that the cut you get with a Smoother (#3,#4,#41/2)or a Jack Plane (#5,#6)or a jointer (#7,#8)can be the same regardless of bench plane number.
So the simple answer to your question is a Jointer Plane....that should cover all your bases for bench plane work. However, the jointer is heavy and most times a shorter plane will do...like the Jack or maybe a Smoother. Also, who wants to be changing the position of the mouth or the chip breaker all the time to get a fine cut. So a small stable of hand planes is preferred to save engery,time and frustration. Usually that consists of a #4, #5, #7 for the bench planes with the mouths/chip breakers set #5=aggressive, #7=fairly thin cuts and #4=wispy cuts. this is all my opinion only.
Edited 1/11/2008 4:47 am ET by BG
Start with a block plane. This is small and the easiest to control of all planes, simple enough to assembly without getting it wrong, and important enough that you could use it frequently.
Which block plane? If new, look at the LN and the LV range. The decision will come down to which one feels better in your hand. One plane is larger than the other, and one will suit you better.
Second hand? Look for a vintage Stanley #60 1/2 (although one of my favourites is the Stanley #65 - but this is more expensive and rarer).
My first large bench plane was a Stanley #5 1/2. I lucked into this. It was by chance, but it was - and is - a good choice. This or a Stanley #5 (which is narrower but the same length). These will be a good all-rounder, allowing you to smooth, joint or level boards.
New? In my opinion, the best all rounder is the Veritas (LV) LA Jack.
Get familiar with the block plane first. Also, get info on sharpening the blade. You cannot go further along this path without the latter.
Regards from Perth
Derek
If I could have only one plane, it would be a jack (#5) plane. Like Mama Bear's porridge, it's not too big and not too small. But that also means that it's a compromise--too big for some tasks, too small for others.
If money isn't an issue, you can't go wrong with a Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley jack, either "normal" or bevel-up. (I prefer bevel-up, but that's a personal matter that you can't really know until you try both kinds.) If money is an issue, then a used Stanley is a good bet, but will probably take some effort to get into working condition (and a new A2 blade will make a world of difference).
My second plane would be a block plane. (Come to think of it, my second plane was a block plane.)
After that come jointers and smoothers. And after that come more specialized planes, such as a fore plane if you're planning on taking boards from rough to finished by hand, router planes, grooving planes, molding planes, etc.
A 5 ("Jack" as in "jack of all trades") is a great place to start with bench planes. If you don't want to spend too much to start, a pre-WWII Stanley is a great alternative; you should be able to find a great user for well under $50. Like this one, for example (not my auction):
http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-VINTAGE-TOOLS-STANLEY-PLANES-EARLY-NO-5-NICE_W0QQitemZ280190665363QQihZ018QQcategoryZ13874QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Don't listen to the fettle-a-phobes, there's not much to making a plane like this sing, even with an original iron, especially if you are doing simple work in relatively straight grain hard or soft woods.
Watch it Mista!
:-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
My first choice would be two planes, an adjustable mouth block plane and a jointer plane. I love my #8. With these two tools I can handle most jobs.
If I was only choose one plane I would get the LN low angle jack plane. With the adjustable mouth I find it to be a great all arounder.
dont forget yard sale and fleamarket finds
even if you know a stanley from a chinese knockoff, you'll soon learn
and too take a ratty old stanley or record and get it working nicely is not difficult at all, and a typical price will be around 5 bucks
i have 6 old"junky"planes, and they all work superbly
a good waterstone, maybe a bench grinder is all that you'll need
Does anyone besides Lie-Nielson sell a new all metal plane done up in the Bedrock style?
Mike D
Clifton, a UK manufacturer. I have many vintage Stanley, many LN, a few LV and a Clifton #3. The Clifton is probably my favorite.
I Googled them and had a look - truly a nice looking plane.
Thanks, Tony.
Mike D
In the US, The Best Things (internet dealer) has good prices on them, as well as Woodworkers Supply.
T.Z.
Yeah, I looked at their prices after looking at the GB site.
They have good stuf.
Mike D
Weel,
By now you will see that all kinds of answers are forthcoming depending upon the inclination of the subscriber.
You say you do simple projects and uncomplicated furniture so I would assume that you do basic stock preparation by hand with or without some initial powered help. To do that you would need a jack plane , a smoother and possibly a long plane for edge shooting. If you had only a jack (#5) you could get away with doing all three functions with that, but you would struggle needlessly if you just had a #4. Sure, you can prepare from rough sawn and dimension your boards with just a #7 or #8, but this becomes increasingly cumbersome when the work is small, or you have frame and panels for example.
You can do very little of the above with a block plane (unless it is a huge one i.e not the type mentioned in previous posts).
So I would suggest that a good handplane to start off with would be sufficiently long and heavy to do a wide range of work and therefore the #51/2 fits the bill. Any tradesman from the old school will agree.
Then, if you are able and interested, you can go the old Stanley steal, fettle, tinker and twiddle route ie acquire an oldy and tune it .If you are not inclined that way then you have the very pleasant choice of a new Lee Valley bevel up or down or Lie Nielsen plane.
Life is good-what more do you NEED?
Er, a sequel may well follow, which describes what you could WANT....
Listen to Philip - He really knows this stuff.
It's late - see ya'll manyana (I know, that's spelled with a ~ over the "n" and no "Y", but I got no ~n on this keyboard).
Mike D
Thanks to all for the voluminous info. Of course, I am now more confused than I was when I asked the questioin. I had no idea such a question would engender so many erudite comments. I guess I'll just have to grab the bull by the horns and dive into the world of hand planes. Thanks again to all.
Keep us advised of how you do, and good luck.
Mike D
Handplanes can be a real addiction. It's best to start out with one that works well so it gives you a target of where your other ones should be, and limits your frustration. As time goes on, it's really funny what you end up reaching for. I use my ratty, banged up 5 1/2 more often than anything in my arsenal EXCEPT my 60 1/2 block plane. I get a lot of use out of a very well tuned 220 block plane too. I use a 3 a lot, a 4 1/2, a 5 1/4, and a 7. I'm still tuning my 8, still not where I want it. All are pre-WWII Stanley's, the 8 is an original Bedrock, without the cool stuff.
Although I've bought some nice ones, most of the ones I've picked up have been total rustbuckets, picked up for just a few dollars. Each required hours of work, but provided great satisfaction as they came back to life. I peaked out somewhere over 70, and got rid of a few. Now I want to build some.
There is just something about planes. As has been said, you can get a Veritas or L-N block plane for a decent price, then work from there.
51/2,
What woodworking are you doing and what are you using that 601/2 for? I can't understand how anyone can use a block plane more than a smoother or jack for normal furniture making ....
"I peaked out somewhere over 70, and got rid of a few."
Beware of Foot and Mouth disease.Philip Marcou
Just "stuff". Trim something here and there. I'm literally amazed at how often I pick it up. The bigger ones get more hours of use, but the blocks get picked up more often. I guess that was the point I was trying to make. I just got the 60 1/2 where I want it, before that the 220 was getting all the action.
Mark
Wow, I hope you are now thoroughly confused and paralyzed. It's amazing how many different answers you got, proving, I suppose, that anything in woodworking can be done in a number of ways.I'm only about a year or two removed from obtaining my first hand plane, and now I use them with great joy every time I'm in the shop. I don't own a power planer or joiner, so all my boards are trued up with hand planes. Believe it or not, with a lot of practice, you can get a board square and flat pretty quickly this way, all the while listening to your favorite music. (I mean real music, though the sound of a sharp iron slicing thin shavings is its own music, too.)I'm no expert, but here's how I stumbled into the world of hand planes: Because I'm cheap, I started with a 1930ish Stanley #5 Sweetheart jack plane from eBay. By looking at the Patrick's Blood and Gore Web site that someone steered you to earlier, you can pretty accurately date the plane, but most eBay sellers are trustworthy in the dating info they post. The plane I got was in good shape, and needed minimal sole flattening. I took it apart, cleaned it up, sharpened the iron, and was good to go. I kept an eye on e-Bay and soon after bought a pre–WWII Stanley #4 with much the same results. My third plane was a 1930ish Stanley #7 that I bought from Walt Quadro, a used-hand-tool seller in Connecticut (Brass City Records and Tools), who is very helpful and who has great prices. (His Web site is http://www.brasscityrecords.com/51.html)Those three planes are the real workhorses in my shop, and I've since complemented them with a couple of block planes from Lie-Nielsen. With these five planes, I can do about 90 percent of what's needed to prepare wood for making furniture. You can avoid the hassle of eBay, etc., by buying all your planes new, but for a beginner, I think pre–WWII Stanleys are the way to go. Getting them ready and maintaining them really helps you to get to know your tools, which I think is a good thing. Besides, you'll save a ton of money this way, and have the thrill of knowing that others before used your planes to make things, as will others after you. Kind of like being a steward of planes rather than an owner.Good luck.
Norman
I must warn you, using hand planes is habit forming, which is a euphemism for addicting. Once you start down this path, there will be no going back. Enjoy the journey.
I started with a #4 Record. If I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I recommend you start with a #5 bench plane. IF...it's the only plane you have , it's the most versatile size to own. You can fill out both ends of the size ranges later. If you buy a used plane, buy a NEW high quality plane blade to replace whatever is in the used plane. Even if it has the original blade in new condition. The new high quality plane blades are a huge improvement over the older plan blades, better steel and thicker, and this will dramatically improve your plane right from the start. After replacing the blade, make sure the sole is flat, the new blade is sharp and with proper adjustment you should be successful with your new tool.
Have fun. I wish somebody would have told me what I just told you when I started out. I fought and fought to get my first plane to work right. Lucky for me, I don't give up easily and now I love using all my planes, currently owning 7 and always looking for more.
Here is a website that will teach you more about Stanley planes, than you ever wanted to know. It's a great site.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
Edited 1/13/2008 12:24 am by jeff100
"when I started out. I fought and fought to get my first plane to work right." Isn't that the truth! In my Stanley's case, the frog rocked slightly on the plane bed as well - figure THAT out late at night.
Based on an informal poll of my peers, a bad experience with an out-of-the-box Stanley plane has caused many modern woodworkers to never pick up a handplane again.
I repeat my earlier advice to make your first handplane from the beautiful, modern, works right out of the box handplane selection at Lee Valley.
I love my LV Bevel Up Smoother, but if I had it to do over again, I would start with the LV Low Angle Smooth Plane or, even better, the Low Angle Jack Plane. The reason being that the traditional side-form (flat and 90 degrees to the sole) lets you use either for shooting endgrain and miters, and the 2" blade (vs 2 1/4" in the BUS) will allow you to quickly, easily, and repeat-ably sharpen the blade and keep it sharp with a WorkSharp (limit - 2" wide blades).
THEN, if you want to prove your manhood (or girlhood for those who are ladies) with something more traditional - read everything that you can lay your hands on tuning a handplane or "fettling" - which literally means pounding the sand and other swarf off of a rough metal casting - an apt description :) and buy a $49.95 Groz set consisting of a Stanley clone block plane and a Bailey plan #4 smooth plane from Woodcraft.
Along with that, get Leonard Lee's book The Complete Guide to Sharpening which includes an article on how to get the Stanley clone block plane to work (requires filing - part of the fettling routine).
Jim Kingshott's DVD Bench Planes, tools and techniques fro a master woodworker is reasonably short, very watchable, and reasonably instructive.
Boy, has a month (weel..., 2 weeks) of using an actual working handplane ever made ME an instant expert!
Still slightly opinionated in Kentucky
Mike D
I own the Veritas Low Angle Jack Plane. It is the creme de la creme of my collection. I use it only occasionally, usually on the 3rd Sunday of the month. I just can't afford many of these high end planes. Yes, they are a joy to use, but oh..so..expensive. Truth is, I'm an ex machinist. I really enjoy buying old planes and bringing them back to life. Most of my planes are Millers Falls planes, I bought them slowly, one at a time off of Ebay. It was a lot of fun searching for the right plane in reasonable condition, bidding on it and then anticipating the arrival, then stripping it, tuning and lapping each component and reassembling it. My collection now consists of a full range of bench and block hand planes from small finger planes up to a 22" jointer. All except for the one Veritas, are used planes. All, are very good planes, all are finely tuned and all work extremely well. Another one of my favorite 'old' planes is my Stanley Rabbit plane. What a deal I got on that plane, and, properly sharpened, does it ever work. Wow. As I said in a previous post, the only caveat I have with old bench planes is to replace the plane iron with todays thicker high quality A2 steel plane irons. That makes a huge difference, reducing the chatter you often get with hand planes.The other lesson I learned when I started hand planing, is how important a good HEAVY woodworking workbench is. This was my first project when I got my shop up and running, and in combination with any of my hand planes, complete the tools you need to do...hand planing. Now I have shooting boards, hold fasts, vises, and all manner of cool tools to compliment my addiction to hand planing.Have I mentioned my chisel collection yet??? Yes...it is..a disease. Regards, Jeff
Get an old Stanley #8 with a corrugated sole. You can do everything with this plane. Get a Hock blade for it and your good to go.
"There's no fool like an old fool"
But Michael, that's expensive!
At present there is a 607 available (not even a number 8) . I started my bid a couple of days ago at $60 with a limit of $100 which was almost instantly "outbid". The bidding is now at $247.50 with an hour and a half left to go.
A search for completed bids for similar machines yields the result that one of these in good condition will typically go from between $260 and $350. In this instance, shipping will add another $12.50 which isn't bad for shipping.
Then it still needs a replacement blade from Hock. $50 or so? So for from $320 to $410 dollars. This no longer a $50 fixer-upper - we're talking serious money here.
Mike D
Why not make your own. There is great pleasure to be derived from making your own plane. Metal and wood just don't go together very well. I have made four, and if I can make a plane anyone can. They work like magic!
Edited 1/13/2008 8:01 pm ET by 9michael9
Now there's a thought. I saved David Marks' recent show on making a wooden handplane. Looks reasonably doable. Something that I might try, someday.
Mike D
Lee Valley makes some nice blades for a do it yourself-er plane maker. Just take your time and it will be a joy to use, and to brag on.
~~Mike Griffin
Edited 1/14/2008 4:57 pm ET by 9michael9
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