Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Apr 04, 2009 08:51am | #1

   Just in case there's a genius out there who's using dial-up for internet, here's the file in .jpg format (compressed, much smaller size).

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   

   
1. 
   RDNZL | Apr 05, 2009 01:01am | #6

   Genius?

   Some of us are simply STUCK with dial-up.............

   The worst part of the situation is that I moved from this cabin I had camped out in while divorce and marital property issues were hammered out and I gathered the wherewithal to build myself a new house, and the aforementioned cabin, which was literally 3 chicken coops that had been scabbed together, had DSL service, and the new house, back on land I had retained from the split, is about 100 yards into a different service area, whose provider might provide DSL service by the end of 2010. Going back to dial-up is like trading in a Mercedes for a Model T!

   In the meantime, the cable company came through the area, but stopped 1/2 mile down the road, and has no plans to extend......

   No cell service here, and our forward thinking town planners have effectively banned tower erection in town with the intent of protecting their precious "viewscapes".

   Ah, 'tis one of the costs of living in the high country here in the People's Paradise of VT.

1. 
   forestgirl | Apr 05, 2009 03:16am | #7

   I may have phrased my post wrong!  What I was alluding to was a genius-woodworker, stuck with dial-up, who wouldn't be looking at the attachment because it was sooooooo big (2MB, IIRC). 

   I, too, was stuck with dial-up for a very, very long tiime, simply because I couldn't afford anything else.  I feel for ya, though,  having to settle for the Model T.  That's a serious drag!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   RDNZL | Apr 06, 2009 03:41am | #10

   "The genius woodworker stuck with dial-up" - that fits me perfectly - especially the genius part............    ; - )

2. 
   gdblake | Apr 04, 2009 10:22am | #2

   Have you tried to match up the boards first straight from the jointer?  If you have the same problem with the boards being convex you are going to have a hard time correcting this at the router table.  If the boards mate cleanly from the jointer then the problem is in your router table fence.  The fence has some slight bow to it and the boards are merely following that curve during routing. 

   I'm not a fan of using a router to try mate two boards for panel glue ups.  The problem you are experiencing is why.  You would do better to buy a #7 or #8 jointer plane to dress the edges of your boards for panel glue ups.  Using the hand plane, you can take a couple of stop cuts to eliminate the convex edge on both boards and straighten them out.

   gdblake

3. 
   THintz | Apr 04, 2009 02:02pm | #3

   The outfeed side of the router table fence must be exactly flush with the lowest spot on the cutter when it is at it's highest point (relative to the fence) or you will be undoing the work of the jointer. You can also get that irregularlity by how you feed the board across the router table, more or less rocking it as it goes over the bit.

   I have used the glue line bits when a board is not quite straight and that profile helps keep everything aligned but most times I just joint the edge and glue it up. I have never had a failure in 30-some years of using just the glue.

   Tom Hintz

   Because there is always more to learn!

4. 
   bones | Apr 04, 2009 04:40pm | #4

   All have provide good advice, but I would ask one question.  How are you getting that first face flat to reference the edge to?  Is the face that's down on the table flat? I'll assume you do not have a jointer or I'd just reccomend using that.  If the edge gluing is questioned, you could use a hand plane to finish the edge.  I had a delta 6" jointer that the vertical fence was aluminum and flexed and gave horrible edge joints i.e. 90 degrees to the flat face.  To solve the problem, I'd run a hand plane down the edge to true it up.  I've since upgraded to a good jointer and the issue has been resolved. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
5. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 04, 2009 07:16pm | #5

   Why is the jointer doing an adequate job just by it self?  With good technique on the jointer you should be achieving glue ready boards, without the need of an alternative rotary blade tool.  We can go over fine points of achieving invisible glue lines with the jointer, if you wish.   

1. 
   AL800 | Apr 05, 2009 05:48am | #8

   Hiya Steve:

   Thanks for the info.  I have a new Powermatic Helical Head 6" jointer and realized that the outfeed table was too high.  I adjusted it and seems to be producing straight edges now.  Even with straight edges from the jointer,  after passing it through the router table with a glue edge bit the board comes out bowed.  Guess I need to re-examine the fence to bit distance.  I like to use a glue edge router bit because when gluing up several boards at a time, the glue edge keeps the boards even and applies more wood to the joint.  Your offer is tough one to resist so I am open to any and all suggestions and techniques that you care to share with me and the group.

   Thanks Steve,

   Charles

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 05, 2009 07:09am | #9

   For fine glue joints here's basically how I was taught.  First thing, sharp jointer blades.  I usually move the fence forward which generally gets to the least used parts of the blades.

   Then it is important that the fence is square.  Check to be sure.  That way you don't have to alternate sides to get offsetting angles.  That can leave you jointing up hill, leading to a rougher surface on some woods.

   The important thing is to present even pressure on the board, applying it in the area just past the blades, so your hand is over the outfeed table.  Make smooth passes. 

   Then when you have both boards of the joints almost ready, do the final tweaking.  I sand one board on edge, place the other down on it in the position it will be in the glue up and use a strong light behind to check for gaps, or points whether the surfaces are touching and holding the surface apart.  You do have to be sure that it isn't dust causing the problem.  I then mark any touching spots with chalk or pencil depending on the wood. 

   Then, with the jointer set for a very light cut, I lower the edge onto the blade and remove a short length of the touching edge.  Then, working as smoothly as possible, I make a full length pass over the edge with the same setting.  That means the jointer is just kissing the former high spot.  (You will often notice a small wave or other little grain anomoly around that spot.) Then I do the same thing for the matching board (unless it was obvious that the defect was on only one of the boards.)   This should, after an Iteration or two eliminate all light between the edges. 

   With reasonably sized boards, and a very light cut, it shouldn't be dangerous lowering the lifting the board from the knives, but if it isn't comfortable don't do it. 

   Then, though I often use my 607 plane with a fence (I don't use it often enough to develop the ideal internal sense of squareness) I do use it to reduce the ripples from the jointer with a couple of lacy passes.  A bit more pressure in mid-board gives the hint of a sprung joint. 

   I'm pretty well convinced that the benefits of a really close fit in the boards more than compensates for a bit less glue area compared to using the glue joint bit on a router.  Using glue joint bit doesn't really give you a way to see and eliminate the final couple of thousandths of separation between the boards. 

   For alignment problems I use cauls, (and/or a dead blow hammer) during glue up. 

   I must credit the classes taught by Maurice Fraser of the Craft Student League at the Lexington Avenue YWCA in NYC for the step by step process.  Perhaps it's overkill to get a strong glue joint, but the goal is a glue joint with absolutely no glue line. 

   Edited 4/5/2009 10:23 am ET by SteveSchoene

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Apr 06, 2009 03:44am | #11

   Charles,

   I've never had much luck jointing boards on a router table.  For me it is difficult to keep the board registered against the outfeed part of the fence to avoid taking too much off the aft end of the board.  I can almost lean on the outfeed table of the jointer, not so with a router table.  Mebbe it's just me.

   As someone else said you should be getting straight boards off the jointer and if you're not the router table prolly won't help much.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

6. 
   BrianDerr | Apr 07, 2009 08:38am | #12

   If it's that bad, glue it strait off the table saw, that's what many do. I use the jointer, take the time to set it up properly, feed the wood very slow and it does just what the name implies--produces a flawless joint. Do you rough mill and acclimate your wood? Why the router if you have a jointer?

   Brian

7. 
   RickL | Apr 07, 2009 12:55pm | #13

   A victim of marketing. They are just trying to sell router bits you don't need. A fresh jointed edge is more than sufficient. Unless you have too much time on your hands and enjoy torturing yourself, forget the glue joint and stick with the jointer.

8. 
   Napie | Apr 08, 2009 06:10am | #14

   Straight from the jointer is fine, forget the router.

1. 
   BrianDerr | Apr 08, 2009 07:47am | #15

   Who thinks the router is better to begin with? Because it spins faster? What's the arguement? Just curious.Brian

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 08, 2009 04:26pm | #16

   The router isn't being used to just make a flat edge, it is applying a particular profile with the glue edge bit.  The theory is that the interlocking profile provides greater glue area along the joint, and also aides in alignment. 

   I don't believe it is a useful thing to do, particularly with a hand fed router.  But it is sometimes done industrially, though there the profile is made with shapers with is made with self feeders, strong fences and powerful cutters.  It probably allows a greater degree of automation of the panel glue up. 

   Since the straight edge is fully strong enough and easily capable of execution by hand held methods that's what I would recommend.