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Good evening,
I was wondering what method is your first choice…??
I have been using the slide together metal bed rail fasteners and am reasonably pleased with them. No client complaints, quick to install – no mortice and tenons to cut, no holes to drill. Visually no bolt covers and easy to take apart.
On my own bed (maple 6”x6”) I have noticed the screws need to be retightened over the seasons. Not a big deal but…. on my current commission I am considering going to a mortice and tenon secured by interior pocket screws for dissassembly….
More work for no gain? Think I just aswered my own question… what do you think?
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Don
Have pretty much always used traditional method, mortise/tenon with bolt securing through post. Can't say I'd reccomend screws, would think they'd work loose eventually. I generally use a minnimum 5/4 rail thickness and at least a 1" tenon (length).
*"Everyone to his own taste" said the old woman as she kissed the cow.I've only made two big beds so can't qualify as a professional.Working on commission has to take time into consideration for you.Were time and money earned not so pressing/important, I would use the traditional mortise and tenon joinery with bed bolts and buried/mortised-in nut for assembly. One can take the bed apart so easily when it's time for the family to move to a new location, or to shift the bed to another room within the home.After the bed is put to use for a few days or weeks, a socket wrench takes up any slight "slack" at the joints quickly/simply.The bed bolt covers are a design feature which enhances the finished bed, in my personal opinion.Violin making is a sideline of mine. So I make a bed bolt cover using the template for an "f" hole of the violn as a nod toward my other hobby. Since my last name begins with "f" also, it's a sort of personal ID touch. I carve a miniature violin form on another bed bolt cover as a sort of additional signature and engrave a note to the owner.Another maker would carve a different motif on his bed bolt cover.FWIWWilliamFlorida
*Hi Don,The enduring truth is, “You can *always do a better/more expensive job.” Did you budget the time for it in your estimate? I’ve never had a complaint with rail fasteners either. Remember the force on the joint is down not out. That’s why the fasteners continue to work even if the screws loosen slightly. I use 4” screws in mine. Like most business decisions, this is a judgment call. If you aren’t getting paid for the “better” joint, I wouldn’t sweat it. Rail fasteners work “adequately.” With profit margins as small as they are in this business, you need to make a decision at the outset about where you’re going to come down on these sort of issues and write your estimate accordingly. It’s too late after the contract is signed. Talk about it with your customer. Tell them the issues and how much it’s going to cost and let them make the decision.Regards,Kim Carleton GravesCarleton Woodworking
*Don,When building a bed, there is an issue that is always sensitive, but very important. I call it the "freak" factor. A bed gets a lot more than just gravity and downward pressure, depending on how it gets used. People jump on beds, they do crazy things with the posts and headboards, things get rocked and rolled in all sorts of directions. enough side to side rocking and those rail attachments can break. I generally pay very careful attention to my client's behaviors (playing amateur analyst), ask some humorous questions that go as far as I think their personality will allow, and make the decisions from there.Kim's right that these decisions are to be made before the price is finalized, as they have a direct bearing on the cost...SB
*Scott,So if the client's sizing criteria for bedposts stipulates that handcuffs must fit around them, then the freak factor would indicate a generous M&T with 1/2" Grade 8 through-bolts, plate fender washers, castle nuts and cotter pins :).
*...and we digress...Don't most of those clients sleep suspended with gag and zippered hood? I'd be more worried about the ceiling joists than the bed bolts (does this warrant a post next door?).Best,Seth
*Hi Don,Let me agree with Scott (another first for KCG and SB). If you find out after the contract is signed that your clients are freaks, I’d build the sucker to mil spec. Far better to keep the client and loose a couple hundred in labor than to be sued if the bed fails at some inopportune moment. You’d loose far more in lost time, etc. even if you settled out of court. And it’s always better to have a satisfied customer. Of course, if they really were freaks, they might get a kick out of breaking the bed. But that’s another story we won’t go into. Regards,Kim Carleton GravesCarleton Woodworking
*DonLabor cost is always a large concern, however my business philosophy centers around never having to do the same job twice and providing the customer with the best I can do. My decision to go the extra time , matl. etc is strictly one I made after several years in the business when I decided it's better (for business) to do a little more for perhaps a few less customers who are willing to pay a little more. The load on bed rails is certainly mostly vertical but by no means only vertical.good luck
*Thanks for your thoughts guys..Cost is not really an issue, after laminating and turning four 4' x 5" x 5" posts plus the blanket rail the additional time for cutting four M&T's on the rails is not a big deal. Bed price guesstimate should be high enough and I include a 10% leeway on my contract for just this purpose. What is irritating is the size of the box spring and mattress (18"), does thickness translate to comfort? FYI, solid cherry four post bed and two solid night tables - $6500. Cdn.... Handcuffs definitely won't fit around the posts but I have performed numerous quality control tests on my bed to assure joints will not fail :)
*i "I have performed numerous quality control tests on my bed to assure joints will not fail."Alone, or with company? Slainte, RJ.
*Kim, wouldn't "another first" in this case be a "second"? Why, we've doubled our record! we keep this up, lunches are gonna get boring...Guys, keep in mind that what I was saying is tongue in cheek, but you don't need a couple who uses pulleys and live cattle to do some damage. Passionate people can put a great deal of strain on a bed, even without handcuffs. It's not just the pulling of the headboard, it's the rocking motion in general. It's like someone who continuously leans back on the hind legs of a chair every day for years - those joints are going to loosen up.Having a bed break at an inopportune moment can be not just a buzzkill, but hazardous to some very sensitive limbs...BTW, scarves and ropes will fit anywhere handcuffs won't....or so I'm told.SB
*Scott, You are going to make me puke. I am (unfortunately verrrrrry slowly) building a pencil post bed for my daughter, she is seven and an angel. I was planning to let her take it with her when she gets her own place etc. etc. Naturally handcuffs, cattle and scarves never entered into the mental picture I had of her (and her kids) enjoying her bed well after I am dead. Consider my nice, innocent imagery perminently warped.Will
*Don,FWI there are a couple of Amish families here in central Ohio that sell their products through an Amish Retail store down the road from me. They do great work and I just looked closely at their bed rails -- they use the metal rail fasteners which I am sure speeds their production considerably. I don't expect the Amish to be contributing to this forum anytime soon so this is probably the closest we will come to getting their advice, unfortunately.Scott,My previous post was of course tongue-in-cheek. I am actaully making a bed for my daughter but I am sure she will use it appropriately. I wouldn't want anyone to think I am a prude or anything. While I might not go for the cattle option, most of the rest of the stuff is legitimate personal preference. After all I think that sex between two consenting adults is a beautiful thing .... but between 4 is FANTASTIC!!!!
*This reminds me of the couple that was doing their ritual in bed where she was handcuffed to the bedposts and he stood on the dresser in his batman outfit and as he leaped onto the bed he slipped and hit his head on the footboard and was knocked out and she laid helplesslessly until he came to.I like the m&t treatment, altho I use a little different system with a hole bored into the frame and stick a dowel with t-nuts that are grabbed by the bolts. I would disagree with the strict money restriction on product input. I always try to put more into it that what I'm paid for. There has been as a result a more upbeat response as well as several clients that wrote out checks for more that what I was asking, by substantial amounts. Always give more than what is required.
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