I am finishing a cabinet and need some advice or guidance on what to finish the inside of my drawers & main cabinet that will not leave an odor inside the drawers once the finish has dried.
Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank You
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Replies
Shellac is as good a choice as any, particularly a clear or blonde type. It can be brushed wiped or sprayed. If you have spray facilities, then as well as spraying shellac, you could instead use use a sprayed lacquer, eg, nitro-cellulose, pre-cat, acid cat, etc.
I suggest you avoid oil based varnish, or even Danish oil type formulations-- the smell lingers for a long time in enclosed spaces. Boiled linseed oil or pure tung oil smell rather like sweaty socks for years if trapped inside an enclosed space so it's my experience that it's best to avoid the use of these products in these locations. Slainte.
richardjonesfurniture.com
Richard,
Here in the colonies, I've read that it was not uncommon to use gum benzoin, alone or as an additive to shellac, for cabinet and drawer interiors. Are you aware of a similar practice in GBritain? Apparently, the gum benzoin (old timers sometimes called it gum benjamin) was used for its spicy fragrance as much as anything else.
Ray
Ray, mostly gum benzoin was used as a final touch to a form of French polishing to achieve a quick shine. The gum benzoine is dissolved in alcohol to form a 'glaze' and used with a rubber over already bodied up French polishing. Charles Hayward reckons it's a bit of a cheap method of getting the shine without going through all the palaver of properly spiriting off as in normal French polishing; therefore he reckons it should be used mostly for "cheap work".
Perhaps he reckoned the inside of cabinets and drawer parts could be considered the cheap end of furniture making, but the spicy smell lingering inside the cabinet gave a nice touch to hook the punters into buying? Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
Thanks Richard,
For your insights.
Ray
I've not used in wood finishing, but I've had a surgeon use tincture of benzoin as an adhesive to make a water resistant bandage. It's an basically attractive odor, but could get old pretty quick I'd think, especially if it made clothes smell that way.
Peter Gedrys has recommended a different historical resin sandarac as a shellac additive in under 10% amounts to improve the sandability of shellac. The sandarac I've used was almost water clear.
Steve,
Thanks for your insights. I don't dislike the aroma of the gum, sort of the smell I associate with grandma's house. Hmm...
Ray
Ray,
Gum Benzoin has a small vanilla component to it; about 2% as I recall. As Richard said the Brits called it "glaze" It's good for a quick and bright polish although not very durable.
Some of the recipes I've seen call for adding it to shellac for added gloss. I may be wrong on the author, it may have been Hayward who said "in solution it improves with age, up to three years."
I have a bottle in my cabinet marked 1999. I'll play with it a bit and see what it's properties are like. It's color is that of a deep blonde shellac.
Another old way is to add a couple of drops of vanilla to your shellac solution.
Peter
Thanks peter,
I have some lumps of the stuff that are probably 25yrs old. Never got around to mixing them up, maybe when I build that fake Goddard-Townsend linen press. (Did I type that out loud?). Sure don't smell like vanilla to me, more camphor-like, to my sniffer.
Ray
Ray,
Yes you typed that out loud. What are you working on?
I've been messing around in the shop with what I call "anti shaker" projects. Now before I get vilified...... I'm having a little fun.
I've got a maple table with tapered legs and a rectangular top that's getting some decorative work. I gessoed and gilt the sides and drawer face in aluminum leaf which will be patinated to look like tarnished silver.
The legs were ground coated with shellac which was colored with antique silver mica powder. Then they were re-coated with an ebonized shellac solution.
The top is also gessoed and getting a geometric design that is inspired from the book "Decorative Floors of Venice".
I've been doing the same mahogany, cherry etc. etc colors for so long that I had to do something different for myself.
My wife saw it in it's beginning stages and said "YUK" Wait until she finds out it's for her sun room! Once the patina is done and the top looks like inlaid marble maybe it will pass muster.
Peter
peter,
I am in repair mode right now. Currently I'm finishing up a tall case clock for a local museum, replaced some inlay, and missing veneer.
I was just joking you understand, but it's intriguing to read about the lengths people have gone to, to fake expensive antiques. You're familiar with the chair that ended up in the Ford museum, I guess. Some gum benzoin in the right place, might go a long ways towards that end, no? "Huh, it sure smells old."
Anti Shaker, I hope that the wife likes it, or that at least it grows on her. Sounds like it ought to be on the back cover of a certain magazine we all know.
Ray
Edited 11/19/2009 10:34 am ET by joinerswork
Ray,
First off let me apologize to the OP for bringing the thread down a different street.
The advice you got from Richard and Howie was as usual, excellent.
Concerning the Ford Museum; I've heard curators laughingly refer to it as the "Henry Fraud Museum" They're going to be dogged by that one for years.
The back cover would never support a piece that has just the finish highlighted. I've only seen real interest in a decorative finish recently on a highly carved piece. The design and execution of furniture that you, Richard Jones, Rob Millard et al execute takes center stage there.
A case in point; I wrote a Finish Line a number of years ago on graining. Had a couple of small pine boxes that were turned into mahogany and tiger maple. It went over like a lead sled. The editor still likes to remind me that it was the second least popular finish line of all time. However, it's a great skill to have when you screw up a veneer.
Just as it took you time, practice and patience to produce beautiful and well proportioned furniture, the same goes for a well executed finish. How often have you seen a good piece that looks absolutely dead? Most don't want to spend the "time on the tool" that it takes to create a beautiful finish.
OK, off the soap box and back to the anti shaker project.
Peter
Peter, never mind about the soapbox-- stay on it. I tell my students that the difference between a piece of furniture that looks okay, and a piece that looks superb, frequently comes down to prepping and finishing.
It's remarkable the difference there exists between a properly prepped and finished piece of furniture and an improperly prepped and finished item. The former gets people going in the right way, and the latter is mundane and passed over by the viewer. A well finished item often looks "just right", whereas an indifferently finished piece looks ropey, even if the uneducated viewer can't really pin down what the difference is between the two.
Many people don't properly realise how much time has to be devoted for prepping and polishing. I reckon that this stage of a project typically takes between 20% and 30% of all the time devoted to a job. Too many people think prepping and polishing needs no more than a quick bit of sanding and a single application of a heavily loaded brush of varnish. Slainte.
richardjonesfurniture.com
Edited 11/20/2009 2:47 pm by SgianDubh
Richard,
I saw that post you did recently with some shots of a green copperas color. I was heartened to see people asking questions on the hows and whys. Hopefully that's a conduit for them to explore beyond what is considered the norm.
In class I'll dye a piece of figured maple a pale to medium violet and ask the furniture makers if they would ever do that. You can see the heads shaking no right? Then I'll ask them if they ever went into a guitar shop and looked at some nicely figured maple guitars done like this. All the while I have a batch of yellow dye at hand and proceed to give the maple I just did with violet, a wash with it's complimentary color. Suddenly there is a lovely golden brown piece of maple with deep brown stripes. The next question I ask is "Are you sure?" Basic color theory at its best.
After lecturing at a woodworking symposium I looked at the display of furniture the members were presenting. There were some beautifully designed reproductions there. Out of more than a dozen pieces only two had satisfactory finishes. The others were lacking color, fill, and polish. On a few, it was obvious that a few coats of oil were slathered on them and that was it. I was asked to comment on a few and politely declined. I know a prevailing feeling is when the construction is done they just want the damn thing finished. What a shame.
Finishing is the part of the project where there are the most options. Some absolutely refuse to use a stain or dye claiming the wood should remain natural, period. That's just a matter of personal taste. I've had a number of people like that in class and almost invariably it comes out that they are terrified of color, afraid they might ruin a piece. Why; because they've never taken the time to learn even the rudiments.
To me there is nothing more satisfying than seeing the look in their eyes when a finish really comes alive under their hands.
Remember that project I mentioned a while back on your side of the pond that I was bidding on? It went the way of the economy and was postponed. I know my wife was happy about that one though.
Peter
Peter, I had forgotten all about that job you were bidding on. Your post reminded of it. Interesting to hear it went south.
I agree that many woodworkers put too little regard into finishing, but it's not really the amateur woodworkers that cause me to wince; it's really when the professionals rely almost entirely on, for example, Danish oil as their finish of choice. These are the guys that I think really ought to develop the necessary skills if they can and, if they can't find the time to develop the skills, they should perhaps consider sub-contracting the job to those that really can do the finishing.
I am generally very sympathetic to the amateur woodworkers for I understand thet it's often difficult for them to find the time to deveolp the skill and knowledge, and there frequently aren't paying customers at the end of the job; perhaps a less than ideal finish choice and less than perfect application is not so critical.
I'm interested to hear you followed that thread on green copperas on oak I started up some time ago. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
Richard,
That color you did on oak was just beautiful, clear and transparent and it really caught my eye. Keep posting stuff like that because there was obvious interest.
I just refinished a large cherry dining table because the professional furniture maker did just what you said; relied on some oil and beeswax. It obviously marked and stained in less than a year. The owner tried to sand things out but....... I got a call and in our discussion of his options he explained the maker told him this was the finish of choice because "it remained true to the wood" whatever that means. I offered them choices; a varnish or a lacquer. In the end they asked me to return it to it's original state so I did. At least they are aware of its limitations and will use it accordingly. Unfortunately they have to treat it with kid gloves. No complaints as I'll be doing it again in a year or two.
Perfect example of a pro who should know better. Maybe he didn't sub it out because it was not "true to the wood". That's the type of stuff that gets my cynicism in high gear.
That job over your way would have taken me months. I know it would have been a very tough sell on the home front. I was on the road for six weeks last year on a gilding project. I would work for eleven days, come home for a few and then head back out. I'd like to have four jobs like that a year.
It was architectural gilding and I was given the opportunity to design the gilt aspect. In the end I went through five packs (plus) of gold. That's over 2500 leaves. It was quite fulfilling artistically and I had fun doing it. I'll give you a heads up when I get it on my website.
Are you OK as far as the flooding goes?
Peter
"That color you did on oak was just beautiful, clear and transparent and it really caught my eye."
Thank you Peter for the kind words. I'm glad you liked it, and it did seem to get some interest.
I think the maker that described his 'true to the wood' preference for finishing his table was 'copping out' rather than offering a suitable finish for the job.
No flooding on the eastern side of the Pennines here in the UK. That's pretty much all on the west coast where the poor b*ggers seem to be getting hammered.
I do remember a bit more detail about that big job of yours now that you've described it again. Perhaps it's a shame you didn't get it, but it might also have been quite inconveneient as you say. Slainterichardjonesfurniture.com
I agree with Richard and even if you do not have spray capability, Deft makes a brushing lacquer that is easy to use. But either finish is an excellent choice for drawers.
The three choices are: Shellac, Lacquer and waterborne.
Thank You for the help
Or nothing. Unfinished.Gretchen
Shellac. As Richard notes, it can be brushed or wiped/padded. Especially easy to do pre-assembly.
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