Some time back I bought a wooden 22″ plane. I de-rusted, ground and honed the blade and it works well.
I would now like to recondition the body. It’s grimy and a little dented on the top and sides. Bottom looks reasonable. Nothing some light work with abrasives won’t fix.
Where I have a problem is: What finish should I use? It seems to me that the wood has been finished with some coating except in the contact area with the wedge. I have not however been able to find a recommendation for the type of finish to use.
Should the wood be left unfinished or is there a standard finish that is used?
Replies
The traditional finish was boiled linseed oil.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I'd leave it unfinished. Feels right to me.
Verne
Dave,
Sometimes, no finish is the best finish. That is my vote.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I usually use a little Danish Oil for the sides and top. Mainly to keep grime from sweaty hands at bay. The sole just gets burnished from use.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I find wax to be very helpful on the soles of my molders and even my metal bench planes. Do you think wax would be appropriate here for the OP?
Sean
You are probably right. I was referring, without thinking, to my planes when newly built. Later I just wax them, as I do with all my woodies, vintage and newish.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks gentlemen.Looks like Danish oil and wax on the sole. Unfinished would probably feel nice but sweaty hands....Happy New Year to All.
Dave - Look at the front end of your plane closely. On antiques, you will usually find at least one owner's stamp, and a maker's stamp. The maker's stamp will generally be a raised name surrounded by a serrated border.
If your plane is unmarked, finish it with whatever you think is reasonable and looks good. Beech planes were often supplied unfinished to the end user in the 18th and 19th centuries, though a french-polish finish was offered by some makers as an extra-cost option towards the end of the 19th century. Those users would typically wax them with beeswax and turpentine, and sometimes finish them with linseed oil.
If there is a maker's name, post it and I'll look it up in Makers of American Planes, and W. L. Goodman's British Planemakers before 1800. There is a -slight- possibility that you've a plane by an early maker, in which case don't do anything to it - it may well be worth several hundred to perhaps several thousand dollars. If it's an Ohio Tool or a Sandusky, it's worth a few tens of dollars (and, of course, whatever it's worth to you as a nice plane to use).
It's a Marples.On the front are stamped:1. What looks like 3 Shamrocks.
2. What might be "LIBERTY" or "HIBB...." I will need chalk powder to really decipher it. The previous owner had a heavy hand with a hammer.
3. WM MARPLES & SON
SHEFFIELD4. Lower down and larger: M/CThanks for the offer to look it up.Happy New Year!
You're fine with refinishing it to your liking. Marples is a British equivalent to Sandusky, Ohio Tool, Auburn Tool, etc... in that they were big firms that made hundreds of thousands of wooden planes. Sandusky, Ohio Tool and others in the US peaked in wooden plane production in the late 19th century, then declined and went out of business in the late teens and early 1920's. In Britain, craftsmen stuck with hand tools for a much longer period, and brands like Marples made wooden planes into the 1960's (tools are still made under the Marples brand, though I think the company was bought out some time ago).
Without a picture, I can't say for absolute certainty, but I'm pretty sure the Marples, Hibernia Works stamp with the three shamrocks would mean your plane dates from the 1930's. From a user's standpoint, it doesn't get much better - the blades are excellent, and the craftsmanship on the wooden bodies was still quite high.
I thought I'd ask, though - there have been instances of individuals "restoring" what turned out to be 18th century American molding and bench planes, and these can be worth thousands to collectors, but not after refinishing.
d,
I read your response about the Marples plane. You were concerned that it might be a more valuable plane.
Remember what happened to the housing market last year? Remember what happened to stocks last year?
I may soon start a thread about this. I believe the same thing is going to happen with "collectors woodworking tools". My reasoning is simple. Woodworking is dying as a passtime. When I was in high school, every kid took "shop", and learned how to use tools. Now "shop" is rarely taught and it will never come back. I am a member of a woodworking guild, in which the average age of the membership is close to retirement age, and a member of a carver's club, in which I, at 65, am the "kid", and the average age must be over 70. I work part time at Woodcraft, and I gotta tell ya, there ain't no kids or twenty somethings getting into woodwork.
Woodwork is an old man's game, and old men are dying off.
When I was a kid, there were a lot of people who did Ham Radio. They had little radios and used Morse code to contact people all over the world. My handle is N4YOA. Try to find kids getting into Ham Radio. It is Dead.
Think about electronics and building radios and TVs, etc. When i was a kid, a lot of kids did "HeathKits". Heath went out of business. As a hobby, it is DEAD.
My belief is that when the current generation of woodworkers dies off, woodworking will be DEAD, and it will be no more revivable than Heathkits or Ham Radio. Places like museums will need "woodworkers" to put Renaissance wax on their displays every year.
Have you ever tried to convince a non-woodworker that a hand plane could be worth $35. Not likely! People who are not well acquainted with woodworking are not likely to pay $100 for an antique handplane.
SO NOW IS THE TIME TO SELL ALL EXPENSIVE WOODWORKING TOOLS!! If you wait until the woodworkers are mostly dead, the crash will occur and your collection will be worth nothing.
No need to worry if you took an original Stanley #1 and refinished it with turquoise dye stain!!!
Happy New Year.
Mel
PS - Remember, only a good friend will really tell you the truth when it is difficult to hear. I am your friend. Don't believe the others. They just want your tools. :-)Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
I share in your pessism and lament - to a degree.As a teenager and in my twenties I maintained my own car, dabbled in electronics and serviced my outboard. I also got quite a lot of water-skiing time in return for tuning peoples' speedboat engines. I have a technical job and most of the technical people I work with are hands-on people who do woodwork, metalwork, paint and sometimes even build their own houses. I'm talking 35 to 60 age-group. On the other hand, most people I know have to ask which way to turn a screw.I don't know conditions in America but in Europe I have seen a steady growth in both the number of tool shops and in the range they carry. It seems that an increasing number of younger people are turning to DIY, This is an inflation-beating move but once they're hooked they may take up woodworking or metalworking as a hobby.This may be wishful thinking but probably not.
dave,
The DIY thang is heating up here also and is I'm sure influenced by the economic times. The tool makers ar having a field day with all the new gizmos and gew gaws though. Especially with that Gumby, I mean Grundy, tool hawker on the DIY Network.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Dav,
Thanks for the comments. I don't think I am pessimistic. I think I am being realistic. I just don't like the outcome. I wish there were a way to increase woodworking among the teenagers. Look at FWW Magazine. Have you ever seen an article in it that would be exciting to a teenager? I don't think so. Look at the other magazines. Nothing there either. DIY is a great thing. DIY for woodworking is carpentry. Nothing wrong with carpentry, but carpenters don't make "fine furniture". So I applaud DIY. I do it. I am lamenting the fact that fine woodworking is an old man's game now, and if that continues, it will all end in less than 50 years.Where are you from in Europe?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,It's not realistic to expect young people to do fine woodworking. I see this sort of evolution.Teenager: Clubbing, Sports, PC games, Girls
Twenties: Ditto, with work getting in the way.
Thirties: Marriage or equivalent. Budgets become important. The couple needs shelves, baby-changing tables, etc.
Forties: Now comfortable with tools. Happily tackles larger projects. Decent results but still target driven.
Fifties: Sense of craftmanship develops. Projects can be tackled more leisurely, woodworking becomes finer. At the same time there is more money available for the necessary expensive tools.Where do I live: Malta. My observations of toolshops are based on Italy, Germany and the UK as well as here.
Just caught my eye, as it were:
"Fifties: Sense of craftmanship develops. Projects can be tackled more leisurely, woodworking becomes finer. At the same time there is more money available for the necessary expensive tools."
Then along come the likes of Br. Mel and Br. Charles who say "Ya don't need no stinkin tools now-git on with it and use that ther six inch nail and an old screw driver".
Sorry about that. (;)Philip Marcou
P.S. Some of the most interesting tool shops I have come across were in the old parts of Athens-but that was some time ago. They had Record, Stanley special planes etc to mention just afew items.
Edited 1/2/2009 1:25 am by philip
Philip,"Then along come the likes of Br. Mel and Br. Charles who say "Ya don't need no stinkin tools now-git on with it and use that ther six inch nail and an old screw driver".
Sorry about that. (;)"That is hilarious. That is the first time that anyone has ever put me in the same bag as Charles, or "Chuck" as I like to call him. Charles talks a good game, but I still don't think he has ever done any woodworking. He has just learned how to speak the lingo by hanging around with woodworkers on the web. You have a good sense of humor. But others may not understand your African/NewZealand humor. To set the record straight, I use and recommend tools which, with good skill, can get the job done well. If someone is rich, they should buy whatever expensive stuff they find that turns them on. The expensive stuff is fun, but is just not needed for woodwork. Indeed, it gets in the way. Your insurance goes up, and you feel terrible if you happen to damage the super expensive tool. If you believe in using really expensive, and presumably good tools, why don't you use Holtey planes? They cost much more than yours, so they must make you a better woodworker? Don't they? If not, why would anyone buy them? The answer is obvious. The same reason that anyone would buy a $200,000 automobile. --- because they can!!!! That doesn't make them a better driver. It merely shows their neighbors that they have "made it". Me, I don't try to impress folks with my tools. I don't try to impress them at all. If they don't like my Lie Nielsens, they can leave. Anyone who stays, gets free hamburgers :-) Do I dislike expensive tools? No. I try to find tools that let me get the job done well, once I learn to use them. For example, someone asked me why I bought that EXPENSIVE Tite Mark marking gauge. I pulled out my cheap old marking gauge, and showed them how much more convenient it is to use the Tite Mark. The difference in useability between the Tite Mark and lesser gauges is quite obvious to me. After using my old marking gauge, I find the Tite Mark to be quite pleasurable, and the extra $50 didn't cause me to have to eat dog food for dinner.But suppose someone made a Tite-Mark that cost $2000, and the bottom of the tightening bolts were polished, and it were made of Titanium, and took a month to produce by hand. I wouldn't think of buying such a tool. Actually, Philip, I preach what you practice. As we have discussed. You make expensive planes using old tools that you have collected and pieced together and refurbished. You are a "skills guy", just like I try to be. As I have often said to you, you are one of my heros. I try to emulate what you do. You make great stuff, using older, refurbished, tools which are ADEQUATE for the job you are doing. That is what Ray Pine does, and he is another of my heros. See, I put you in a category with the great Ray Pine. Why do you put me in the same category as Chuck the "Woodworking Wannabee".By the way, while Chuck may not have done much woodwork, and while his manner in insulting other woodworking wannabees who have admitted a mistake is abominable, his advice, which is usually overlooked because of his lousy bedside manner, is often correct!!!!! Charles tells folks, and rightfully so, to just get in there and use the tools they have. I don't know how Charles would know that is the right thing to do, but it is.I would recommend that all woodworkers look at the photos that you have published of your shop, and emulate your behavior. Like you, they should find whatever old tools they can, which can get the job done, and they should refurbish those tools, and get to work and use them to make masterpieces, just like you do.So in the future, please don't tell people that I say they sh ouldn't use good tools. Please tell them that I recommend that they use the same approach to tool selection as Philip Marcou does. Because Philip Marcou is living proof that you can use old reconditioned tools to make masterpieces. The important thing to know is which tools are adequate, and the important skills to have are to be able to recondition the old tools. Then it is important do do what Charles says, and which Philip Marcou does, -- get down into your shop and use the tools that are there, and stop whining!There. Now I feel better. I have told the world that they should all act like Philip Marcou. What greater compliment could I pay you?Indeed, I am thinking of starting a new thread entitled "Act like Philip Marcou". What do you think? Could we get it up to 5000 posts? Can we make Philip Marcou the poster-boy for the use of adequate rather than fancy toold? I THINK WE CAN.Philip, YOU ARE MY ROLE MODEL. I am glad you are out there. If I had not found you to model myself after, I would probably have fallen into the trap of modelling my life after Lataxe. :-)Have a nice day.
You are the object of my hero worship.
I hope you have as much of a sense of humor as I do.
I wish you a happy and a prosperous New Year.
I admire your ability to weed through all of the BS on Knots and find nuggets such as those things that Chuck and I agree on.Mel (an obvious admirer of your genius)Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
d,
Your ideas on the primary emotional tugs on people as they age are very insightful. You should write a book. You have good insight into the human psyche. What kind of woodwork do you do? I am a hobbyist. I enjoy making casework (rectangular things), and I do a lot of carving.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
What kind of woodwork do you do?What is necessary at the time. I've made beds, Desks, a Built-In Wardrobe, Kitchen for the beach house.......Up to now it has not been particularly "fine" woodworking but I have now raised my standards (I hope) and have just embarked on a set of built-in wall-units for the beach house. That should keep me happy until Easter.Thank for the compliment re my ideas but I'd rather pass on a book.
Mel,
You aren't being pessimistic enough. When this "recession" gets onto full swing, those people with tools and the know-how to use them will be the equivalent of the investment bankers of yesterday. We will have all the power, when those worthless houses start falling down and folks don't have the foggiest notion of how to drive a nail, much less bust a board out of a log. Those hand tools and we who have them, will rule the earth after the grid falls apart. A Stanley 55 will be worth its weight in stock certificates.
Ray the optimistic pessimist
Ray,
You break me up. You optimistic pessimist. I was just trying to start another 5000 post thread, and you go and start getting rational on me.
Happy New Year.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
9619,
As a teacher, I regrettably agree with you. It seems that in the last few years interest in the "how to" (woodworking, metalworking, drafting, etc.) has evaporated. Looking back over the years I've had students that were passionately interested in learning, never all of them but always some of them. We took a turn for the worse in the mid 1990's and we've done it again in the last five years. I guess I've become a pessimist also but things are out of place. If it flies like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck. The attached pictures are from my new folder named "This is what was taught and this is what was learned". I teach metalworking and this was done in the shop across the hall but my results are similar. Being a teacher, I'm more and more I'm ashamed of what I accomplish - kids have changed.
Shopteacher,
I salute you. You are one of the ones who has been trying. Woodworking and metalworking were taken out of most high school curriculums because of budget cuts. BUDGET CUTS! THAT IS INSANE. We are squandering BILLIONS of dollars on banks that wont even tell us what they are doing with the money. A small amount of money added to "bail out the schools" would be a much better idea. We could keep acquainting kids with shop. But like you, I don't believe that is going to happen.
I wish you a lot of luck in teaching.
Thanks for writing.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I just turned 30 and I have been fooling around with woodworking for several years now. A couple of years ago I got bitten but the hand tool bug. It all started when I acquired an old Footprint No.4 smoother that belonged to my grandfather. I cleaned and sharpened it, and upon producing my first shaving I was hooked. Now I have developed a somewhat unhealthy obsession with hand tools. I find myself scrolling through pages of high-end planes, saws, ect. (my wife doesn't understand and I don't think I'm alone) and some day I hope to own a Marcou. Although becoming scarcer, there are a few "younger" woodworkers out there. P.S. Before you guys dump your handtool collections drop me a line. Thanks.Donovan
Donovan,
Glad to see a young guy fall in love with woodworking! Wish there were a lot more. You got bitten by the bug when you got a tool from your grandfather. Do you have any ideas on how to get more young folks interested? What could FWW magazine do? What could Woodcraft and Rockler do? What can woodworkers do? If you have any ideas, let me know. Don't lose the faith!
Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
MelI think the survival of our craft is in our own hands. We shouldn't look to the big corporations like Rockler, Woodcraft our FWW, but instead we look to ourselves to spread the joy of woodworking. I was predisposed to woodworking at a young age. Although I was a kid of the video game era, some of my most cherished memories are of times spent with my father in the basement shop. Most of us have kids, nieces or nephews, or even young neighbors that may enjoy the craft given the opportunity.One example that comes to my mind recently when a friend was cleaning out his garage he found an old Stanley 110 that belonged to his grandfather. Being a car guy, he thought he didn't have a use for the old battered plane and he gave it to me. I tuned/sharpened it up and returned it to him and suggested that he give it to his infant son when he is a bit older. Since then he has used that old rusty plane on several occasions and recently he commented on how handy it was. I can see it already has won a place back in his heart. Now I just have to teach him how to sharpen it.My point is that large corporations or government funded school programs aren't going to ensure the survival of woodworking. That responsibility is with us........woodworkers. Thanks.Donovan
Donovan,
Obviously, you have the answer. If woodworking is going to be passed on, it has to be by the current woodworkers. I am glad you are doing your part. I am doing mine, and I know of a number of others. Let us work for the best outcome. But, we need to remember that some of the forces of nature and of society, such as booting shop out of the school system, are working against us.Good luck,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
ROFL! =D
I think that second one could use a little more glue.
View Image
"No need to worry if you took an original Stanley #1 and refinished it with turquoise dye stain!!!"
Mel - I think you already realize this, but my point to the OP was still valid - it would be extraordinarily dumb to refinish and refurbish an American 18th century plane, at least from the financial standpoint.
I cannot say where the collector's market will go, but one needs to realize that at least for the high-end market, collectors are not users. In fact, very few of them actually work wood by any means, handtools or otherwise. They collect tools as art, and again, while I cannot say where the market will go, the high-end tools are going ever higher, regardless of the economy.
Part of the reason for this is that the high-end stuff is the purview of the wealthy. There are few among us that can, or would, afford an $8000 Yankee plow by Cesar Chelor, but that's what it sold for on fleabay last summer. And fleabay prices are quite low - that same plow will likely show up at an upcoming Brown auction and will go for $12,000 or more.
And that's the low end of high-end tool collecting. Ebony center-wheel plows by Sandusky and others continue to skyrocket in price, and things like presentation pieces and extraordinarily rare tools go for many tens of thousands of dollars.
The rich are not like you and I - they're rich, and don't care. It doesn't make much difference to them whether their investment portfolio is worth $120 million or $80 million after the stock market debacle last fall, at least when it comes to collecting low-end stuff (low-end to them, anyway) like tools.
You are, however, probably correct for mid-range and low-end collector's tools. These are the ones that ordinary mortals like us can afford, and they're unwanted by those with lots of money.
d,
As you know, I enjoy thinking about and raising woodworking issues. I had some fun with this one. I don't have any dogs in the fight. My old Stanleys are at the lowest end of the spectrum,Your point to the OP was right on. I wasn't arguing with you. I was having fun with the idea of what might happen to the old tool market. Happy New Year.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
As the OP I consider that I can break into this conversation :-)If that plane had been worth anything over $100 it would already be looking for a new home and its place on the plane shelf would be occupied by a metal one.The collectors' market is driven by different factors to the users' market. The value of something is precisely what somebody is prepared to pay for it. A user balances cost, necessity and desirability. A collector does not consider necessity - at least not in a user's terms- but does seem to factor in an investment value.Look at the art market. Collectors agree that Picasso's paintings are worth millions. If one of us made a table to the same standards it would have a severely inclined and warped top, legs of different lengths and a blotched finish.The value of old tools has similar driving forces. A collector's market will only collapse if a lot of collectors simultaenously decide to sell of their collections. The old supply and demand law. Otherwise everbody has an interest in maintaining high prices. A total disappearance of the woodworking craft will have a minimal impact on the value of collectible tools. Think antique swords. Their value did not collapse when people stopped hand-to-hand battles.Oh, and by the way: I won't finish the plane in turquoise. It would clash with the decor.
D,
I really would like to see the plane in turquoise. :-)This is not important, but I think that collectible tools are VERY VERY different than collectible paintings or coins or stamps or antique napkin rings. Almost everybody feels they know something about paintings and antique furniture. But antique tools are different. For the most part, it is a "guy thing", and while anyone might like a particular painting, very few are interested in researching the differences in antique planes. ALL of the tool collectors that I know do or did woodwork at some point. Some are now too old to do woodwork, but they fill their time with looking around for old tools. If you know such a person, ask their grown children if they are interested in their dad's collection of planes and chisels, and invariably the answer is NO. I have a stamp collection. I believe any of my three grown kids would like it, if only to give to their kids. The same isn't true for my tools.So, my belief is that the old tool market is going to come down hard when the current generation of woodworkers dies off. Like any "bubble market", it will go up fastest just before it collapses. I predict that once it bursts, it will not recover. I don't think this will happen for at least forty years. Actually, the tool market will begin to tank about 3:30pm, G.M.T on March 24, 2049. PLease do not spread the word. :-)It is amazing how many dumb theories you can find on the internet. Isn't it? I do think turquoise would be a nice color for a hand plane. Most woodshops are entirely too dull looking, and need a bit of color.Have fun. Don't believe everything you read, especially here on Knots.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
>It is amazing how many dumb theories you can find on the internet. Isn't it? <No, it's amazing that I spend any time reading them. I have learned two important things from five years of reading "knots." One is that you can use a diamond plate to dress a translucent arkansas stone and the second is that time spent talking about tool comparisons actually DETRACTS from your woodworking in the long term. The second observation is counter-intuitive but I am absolutely convinced that it is true.No need to respond with a long post, Mel - I've already read your news from the other ones. Good luck in 2009."Yes, but what's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded." - Augustus McCrae, Lonesome Dove
MEL
Wher do you find the time to think up this stuff?
WillGeorge,
"Where do you find the time to think up this stuff?"The answer is that my mind has a mind of its own.
I can't control it.
While doing mundane tasks, my mind takes sideroads.
You see what comes out.I have often read the stuff that you write. Much of it you find on the web. But I have often wondered how you know where to look to find it. Hope you are having a fine year.Where do you find the time to read this stuff?
:-)
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Thanks for the info. The word I thought was "Liberty" is in fact "Hibernia". Looks like they sell for about Stg 40.I (hopefully) attach a photo.
Renaissance Wax
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
or is there a standard finish that is used?
I would say Blood, Sweat, and Tears untill you get it down pat!
Hand grime and hand oils the best!
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