Hi, I was wondering if people would like to give their opinion on their favorite ripping blades for the table saw (10″)
There are loads of reviews on 40T general blades, but very little on rip blades and crosscut blades.
I’ve been looking at the freud glue line rip blade. Also, Amana has a few different rip blades and infinity has a glue line ripper. Ridge carbide has one for about $75… a lot to pay for a rip blade… and lee valley sells one for around $50 that is generic brand.
I’m planning to use this blade daily in a cabinet shop and subject it to many sharpenings and many years of use… and I would like a good quality of cut and excellent durability and feed rate. A glue line rip would be nice, but isn’t essential.
I would love to know what everyone thinks before I buy one.
Replies
I have a Forrest Rip Blade, 20 tooth and it cuts like a dream. Eats 2" Maple for breakfast, and the cross cut is very smooth also. $110 was a lot money for a rip blade, but you can glue up from it. It is the pits on plywood or melamine, just splinter the heck out of it. But hardwoods, it was worth the money to me.
Also have woodworker II blade, which works great for everything, it rips OK, but it worth getting the rip on if you are doing some cuts.
Good Luck, will look forward to other ideas!
AZMO
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thanks-I didn't know forrest even MADE a rip blade... I've never seen one listed. I'll have to go to their home page and look it up. But now that I know that they DO make one, I 'm sure it's as good as their other blades. (in other words excellent) thanks,
vincent
The Freud Glue Line Rip blade is excellent!
I was unable to find this blade on their site... perhaps they've stopped making them?
Try this link to Forrest Blades Online. Best pricing I could find, and they have it all listed. Even the custom grinds for Dovetail blades. I should say that this blade, like most aggresive rip blades, does spit a lot of sawdust up and into your face. Surprised me the first time. Let us know what you get and why, I bought this one since I was getting a wwII and figured for the price it would be worth a try.
http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/product_578_10_20_Tooth_WOODWORKER_II_Saw_Blade__For_Fast_Rip_of_Thick_.html
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Edited 5/27/2008 10:57 am by AZMO
very nice - this looks like just what I wantI would never have found that blade on my own. thanks
Nice company, great service, comes in a plain package, no frills. Seems to be a sawyer who buys bulk blades and has set up a spin off company, but not sure. For the price, hard to beat. Let me know if you like it.
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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I've used several brands of blades, but keep coming back to Forrest. A bit more $$, but worth it, IMHO.
I've always sent my blades in to Forrest for sharpening, no matter what brand -- they've always been returned like new. Last time tho', I was a bit disappointed. One blade (a Forrest) came back cutting funny (throws serious chips back at the operator like it's got one wacky tooth or something and a pretty rough rip) and another came back OK, but not up to the usual glassy-smooth cutting standard. Hope it was a one-time thing. I'd hate for their sharpening service to be no better than the hardware store's.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
If that happens again I would try Ridge Carbide for sharpening. I think they have a pretty top notch service as well. thanks for the tip
This one is marketed as a Thick Stock rip blade but is actually a true workhorse that would fit the criteria you mentioned perfectly:
http://www.freudtools.com/p-37-thick-stock-ripbr-nbsp.aspx
Before the introduction of the 30T Glue Line Rip blade we called it the Speed Ripper.
Freud America, Inc.
That's a monster blade! I'm not sure if we need something that aggressive all the time, but it could be really nice to have around the shop when the big boards come out. thanks,vincent
Vincent ,
I have been using the Frued 50 Tooth combination blades for many many years and own a half a dozen of them and never have been disappointed with the results.
The only improvement they could make would be to allow them to cut an occasional piece of rock or steel without chipping a tooth ( just kidding )
dusty
For $25, including shipping, we will sell you a blade with a sheet of self adhesive sandpaper for each side. This blade can be resharpened several times and the sandpaper is replaceable. It was developed to give truly beautiful cuts in cabinet shops and for finished trim work. (see the video – address below.)
For about $100 we will sell you a custom made blade with long life saw tips that will give you about 2, 3 up to 5 times the life of carbide. It has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.
See http://www.carbideprocessors.com/level2store/storehome.htm
If you have doubts about this, see the technical info at http://www.carbideprocessors.com
Tom Walz
"I'm planning to use this blade daily in a cabinet shop and subject it to many sharpenings and many years of use... and I would like a good quality of cut and excellent durability and feed rate. A glue line rip would be nice, but isn't essential."
Most of the better 24T rippers will leave a glue ready edge and will have a good feed rate. The 30T rippers will tend to hold an edge longer and will tend to cut cleaner but won't feed as quickly. Amana's 30T GLR has a very steep positive hook that should help improve it's feedrate.
I've had good results from Freud, DeWalt, Infinity, and Leitz rippers.
My ripping blade is an 8 tooth carbide flat topped that goes through 8/4 hard maple like going through butter. The blade was bought in 1968 and has been sharpened many times. It produces little or no dust as it creates small curly chips instead. The cut is slightly rough but cleans up with one pass on the jointer. Obviously is does not create a saw and glue surface. It is also quite quiet compared to a high count tooth saw. It has cut thousands of linear feet of all types of wood. Have never seen one since the late 60ies in stores.
Edited 5/27/2008 7:28 pm ET by mrbird90
I use the freud glue line rip for stock under 1". For thick stock either freud 20 tpi or Amana ( I think also 20tpi).Any of these three blades do an excellent job.
mike
For Ripping hardwoods, I have been using the Freud 24 tooth "heavy duty rip and have been very pleased. I would probably get the Forrest Blades if they sold them around here, and they were a little cheaper. Has anyone tried the blades Tom Walz? posted about a few up from here. Technical mumbo jumbo is good and all for some, I want the word of a carpenter, not a sales pitch, no offense to Tom. $25 and all of your sanding done in one trip through the saw. sounds good, too good in fact to be true. I will definately never beleive that until I see it. And not on the computer monitor but in my hands. Tom, if you read this, I am willing to put that $25 dollar blade through my grind for a week or however long it can take it. I would even give you a fair shake at what i think about here in knots. (yes, I want a free blade)
I a may not be very good, but at least I am slow.
All ,
Addressing this issue is not a one size fits all situation
One has to think the hp or power plant of the TS could give different results with the same blade . A 3 or 5 hp TS will give a different cut than a say 1hp little light weight model don't you think ?
d
Very True! I have a 1.5 HP Delta Hybrid. Sharp blades allow for easy cutting. AZMO <!----><!----><!---->
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I agree. Had a Forrest II on a Powermatic 64 (contractor) and it was so-so but once it was on a Powermatic 66 cabinet saw it was excellent.BB
I do quite a bit of ripping, so speed is important to me. I prefer a 20 T rip blade when the stock is over 8/4 and will use a 24 T for under 6/4 depending on the density. I have no personal use for a glue-line rip blade as I rip 1/8" over actual size and take it to the jointer to get the glue line. I have never seen a TS blade that I feel produces an edge as well as can be put on stock as with a jointer or #7 jointer plane.
After trying many.. I prefer the Amana 20 T Euro Ripper for 8/4 + and and the CMT 24 T or Freud 24 T for 6/4 -. I keep two of each of the above on hand as I don't have time to waste by sending the blade out without a back-up. I can take one to the local sharpener and have it back in 3 days without risk of down-time. He charges $7.50 for the 20 T and 24 T.
I have not tried the Forrest and probably won't. For the price of one I can purchase two good rip blades and always have one on hand that is sharp with the above mentioned method. I was not aware of the Freud 18 T Charles mentioned, but the next time I purchase a rip blade for thicker stock, I will give it consideration depending on the price.
Good luck...
Sarge..
Edited 5/28/2008 9:33 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
"I have never seen a TS blade that I feel produces an edge as well as can be put on stock as with a jointer or #7 jointer plane. . . . I have not tried the Forrest and probably won't. For the price of one I can purchase two good rip blades and always have one on hand"
Well, maybe it ain't as "good" as a planed edge, but it's good enough. Once it's glued up, you can't tell the difference between a rip with a Forrest and a jointer edge. Heck, for the price of one jointer, I can get 6 or 7 Forrest blades and always have 5 on hand. ;-)
FWIW, since I started using Forrest blades, my jointer has lived under a blanket in the corner of my shop. What do I need an extra step for?
YMMV.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
If I rip say 200 linear feet Mike.. the extra step with the jointer takes about 5 minutes as I leave the cutter-head at 1/16". I realize that some do not have a jointer and frankly.. if jointing edges were the only use I had for it, I wouldn't either. I have a #7 that will do the same job. But my jointers main purpose would include jointing edges less than 5% of what it gets the call for.
I suppose if you are happy with the edge a TS blade can produce.. all you need is a TS blade. I'm kind of fussy with them and just personally prefer a jointed edge. I will M&T a face frame when other methods would work and hold, but again I am just fussy about using pocket screws or biscuits.. I prefer M&T's just because.. well I do. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 5/28/2008 11:30 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
I hear ya Sarge. There's lots of different ways to skin a cat -- at least as many ways as there are cat skinners, and then some! I just felt like bustin on ya a bit. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
Not to criticize your methodology, but what do you do if a board bows after pushing it through the saw? That's very common with the lumber I work with - maybe it's because I work with common lumber, eh?
But I don't think I've ever had a board that I felt could be glued to another, edge to edge, without jointing it first. Don't you get gaps between boards right off the saw?
My late uncle, who was president of an Ethan Allen furniture parts factory in Maine, was of similar mind to you regarding jointers. His factory took the process from raw logs through milling and kiln drying, all the up to making finished panels and parts for furniture. And he said that he didn't think his shop had a jointer in it. They glued everything up right off the saw.
Of course, they had big mechanical gluing machines that forced boards into alignment under tremendous pressure.
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Well, I get almost all my wood roughsawn and I'm pretty careful to select straight stock with good grain. I thickness them first. (Without the jointer -- I know, heresy!) Then, if the board is bowed a bit, I'll rip a straight reference edge with a jig (fixture?). That usually only takes about an inch or less off the concave side. Then I rip the other side straight by placing the reference edge against the fence. The board is then straight and the sides parallel. When doing these initial steps on the edges, you can usually tell if the wood is wacky and will move on ya when you rip it by paying attention to the cutoff. If it seems stable, I just cut it to exact size. If it seems to wanna move around, I'll cut it a half inch or so oversize and trim it down with the jig again, or save that piece for short stuff and pull another stick off the lumber pile for the long pieces. To be honest, I rarely have to do that.
With careful sawing, edge joining is no problem. No gaps at all for most pieces, tho' for stuff over 6' long, if there is a small gap, I don't worry about it -- I just glue it up and the clamps straighten everything out. No pneumatic clamps needed. I doubt anyone could pick out a set of boards joined this way vs. a set worked on the jointer.
I depended on my jointer for 20 yrs before I discovered Forrest blades. (Others mfgrs may now have blades that work as well -- but I haven't gone looking since I like these so much.) Now, it's pretty much a relic. I use my ol' woodie hand planes more than the amazing electric jointer. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Zolton ,
If your boards are bowing when you run them through the TS several factors can contribute to this result but not the blade to my knowledge . First off you need an actually straight edge to reference off of . You can straight line rip on the TS or joint the edge straight before ripping .
If the edge is straight but the wood still bows the wood is suspect , it could have stress or tension or what we used to call timber bound , it may not be properly dried .
Often times you can just look at a board and tell it will bow , especially when it looks like a banana with both edges curving in the same direction.
dusty
Dusty,
I would have no problem with gluing up boards straight from the saw if cleanliness of the cut was the only issue. I routinely get "jointer-like" edges from my Freud combination blades - so clean I really need to examine them in good light to be able to see the tiny tooth scratches that differentiate that edge from a jointed one.
You referred to stress in boards, and that's what keeps me from using boards straight off the saw for glue-ups. A cello bow maker I know, a man who knows more about wood that I ever will, once told me that every cut you make in a piece of wood relieves some stresses and sets up others. That seems true..
And maybe it's ok to use clamps to remove some board-bowing in a glued up assembly. But my feeling has always been that the fewer stresses you introduce in a glued piece the longer the glue bond will last.
That having been said, knowing that "off the saw glue-ups" is the way many in the furniture industry do it would seem to refute that position.
I reckon I'll keep jointing though, as it is a work methodology that I'm accustomed to - and frankly, I just like to hear my jointer humming and making chips. It's good to hear the other side of the story though, and that others have different ways of going about achieving a good result. And maybe I'll try a few off-the-saw glue-ups if I ever get to work with stock that doesn't bow after having been cut..
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
As a preface, let me first state that I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to throw out their jointers. I do have a question tho':
You prefer to cut your stock a bit wide and then joint up to the line. That removes 1/8", or 1/16", or whatever from the edge of the stock. Are you saying that removing this final bit on the jointer makes it less likely that the workpiece will bow than if you removed it on the TS?
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
Nope. That's not what I'm talking about.
When I need to glue up a panel, I first rip the lumber to the rough sizes I need, face-joint and then edge-joint them.
If I cut, for instance, an 8 inch wide board into two 4 inch boards, each will bow - and sometimes they'll twist as well. The warping and twisting require face-jointing, and while I'm at it I just do the edges at the same time.
I suppose I could, as your post intimated, recut the boards to remove just a sliver off the bowed edge. That would likely create a glue-able and straight surface. But I'd only do that after face-jointing the stock. Otherwise the blade's cut might twist and turn as a warped board's face followed the flat indexing surface of the tablesaw...
What do you jointerless woodworkers do about face-jointing? Do you join rough lumber and then surface-face panels all in one piece through some sort of alchemy I'm not aware of?
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
"What do you jointerless woodworkers do about face-jointing?"
Why, I avoid it at all costs! ;-)
Seriously, I am very picky at the lumberyard. I start with non-twisted stock (a little bow or cupping never hurt anyone, though) and run it through the thickness planer until both faces are smooth. I usually do a whole pile at once, so I just keep hummin' along until the whole pile is surfaced on one side, flip them over and repeat. I usually end up with a pile of wood in the neighborhood of 14-15/16" thick. If anything goes wacky during this procedure, it's put aside to be cut down later for short, or thin, stock. Doesn't happen often, tho'.
If I absolutely have to face joint a stick, I'll pull out the woodie scrub plane, start sweatin' and making shavings, and go from there. (My jointer is only 6", so it's often not much use in this department.)
In a small shop environment, I've had to come up with alternate procedures like this. It's a PIA to have to swap out the TS for the jointer on the shop floor all the time. Now if I had a nice, roomy shop, with a 12" jointer permanently set up, I'd run every stick of wood I touched through that sucker! As it is, if somebody gave me a pile o' dough and told me I had to choose which tool to buy, a jointer or a planer, there would be NO question in my mind -- I'd buy a Sawstop! ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Zolton,For what it's worth, If I use a power jointer at all, my method of work is to edge and face joint on the jointer. Then thickness. Then remove all jointer marks with planes - jointer/try/smoother all adjusted for smoothing. Glue up and finish off both sides with smoother and cab scraper.I never use warped stock for a major facet. If I used it at all, it would only be as a stand alone asset (finial etc) to a piece but never for primary and only after I have reduced it to "flat" mechanically before structural work. RegardsBB
I used to use the jointer much more than I do now, but it's just the realities of larger scale production that doesn't leave much choice in the matter. We rip using an Amana 28T (it's a 14" blade on a 7.5HP motor) and go right to glue-up. The only thing that limits the speed of work is how fast you feel like pushing. If some board comes off too bowed then either it goes to become small pieces or it goes to the junk pile. Can't be bothered with taking pieces to the jointer when the results are excellent this way. And we don't apply killer clamp pressure to close the joints, they come off the saw just fine. That said, in the days when I didn't have a big slider, I used the jointer a lot more.David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
"I felt like bustin' on ya a bit"... Mike
You can fill out an application Mike, but don't be dis-appointed if you don't get the poistion my wife currently has. Looks as if she may never retire as she loves the job. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 5/28/2008 1:40 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Actually, the Forrest I use in my table saw gives a BETTER than a jointer cut. I think it's called a woodworker II model or something like that.Denny
"Actually, the Forrest I use in my table saw gives a BETTER than a jointer cut. I think it's called a woodworker II model or something like that."
I agree -- no scalloped jointer edges. But if I'da said THAT, nobody woulda believed me. ;-)
That said, I don't actually think either jointing method is inherently "better" than the other. Either one, if done properly, will render a perfectly fine joint. It all comes down to personal preference. I prefer the blade method because I have a small shop and I always had to wheel my jointer into place to use it, since there was no room for it to be permanantly located. If I hadn't been stuck with this inconvenience, I probably would have never needed to try the glue-edge blades and would still be on the "You Need A Jointer" side of the fence.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Well, probably like most, I run one side through the joiner, then go to the table saw. It's a pieceacake to tell which is which when you're done. The Forrest side is like polished glass.Denny
"It's a pieceacake to tell which is which when you're done. The Forrest side is like polished glass"... Denny
Polished... as in possibly burnished?
Regards...
Sarge..
As in smooth. It must make a good joint because I've never had one come apart on me, Sarge.
Denny
OK.. OK.. I just put my jointer and #7 plane I spent 11 hours re-building for sale to try a Forrest. I will assume I will get no deflection from torsion leaving the slightest gap at the top or burn when ripping 12/4 for laminating large table legs. I hate that as gap means more clamp pressure and burn means burnish which doesn't take glue as well from my experiences as I wouild prefer.
Now... will left tilt currently on my TS be satisfactory or should I sell it and get the right tilt for a better result?
Just kiddin' guys and will let you run with the ball.. maybe we can get this thread in the featured ones that you see when you first log on to the forum with a little work.
But... in the meantime I need to get to the shop as those two projects working are not getting the attention they need while I'm here waiting for the final solution before I proceed. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards and ya'll have a good day.... :>)
Sarge..
Mike,
I am curious - you said you don't join a face before thicknessing your stock. Do you do any special prep or just run the rough boards through the planer? I don't have a jointer (yet?) either and would be interested in your technique.
Chris
The only "special" prep I use is that I carefully select my timber. For normal use, I don't buy anything twisted. Other than that, I just plane both sides on the thicknesser, removing approximately equal amounts from each side. I rarely have any problems that are not easily corrected during glue-up, and those are generally only on long sticks.
My experience is that anything that's too wacky to surface this way is better cut up for shorts -- otherwise, it'll end up too thin when prepared in the usual manner.
Not the generally accepted traditional approach, I know. But it works for me.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Sarge, gotta say it, you have to try it to believe it. I run my edges through my jointer, and the sound does not change you know what I mean? No gaps at all. I glued up some maple this weekend and jointed one set and did not on the other. I really can't see the difference either. But being careful I will probably run it though just to be sure.
The Forrest 20 tooth rip is only $64 bucks, your Amanas are $45 or so. Not a huge difference really when you get down to it.
later AZMO
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Thanks on the price as I was not aware they had anything under around $90. Wasn't aware of the Freud 18 T either that Charles mentioned. Just don't get out enough I suppose.
After 36 years of jointing them as I was taught to after over-sizing Azmo... I will probably continue to do so as I know the results from doing so. Kind of like Ray Pine says.. I was taught to do it that way and have always done it that way. Probably always will at this point. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
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