I need to replace my entrance door to my home. The door I have now is unsightly. I want to build my replacement door, I think it would be a fun project. But I have some questions for any door experts out there.
Good doors are expensive. Fancy exterior doors are ridiculously expensive. Building a door seems to make sense from a cost perspective, assuming I have the skills and equipment to build one right, that won’t warp and bow after a month on the house.
What about insulation? It seems like these days you wouldn’t consider installing a non insulated door to a house. Yet the high end doors I look at costing thousands, don’t seem to be insulated. Am I seeing this right?
What is the best material for an entrance door. I’m wanting to build an arts and crafts style door. I live in western Washington state. Nice straight grained Douglas Fir seems like a good material if I want to use a local wood. Mahogany is my default “go to” choice. Maple would be another ‘local’ wood choice. Is there any wrong wood, or is it just a matter of proper applied finish…and maintenance once it’s built and installed…
Am I wasting my time? Should I just install a fiberglass door with a faux wood finish? I just can’t bear to do that. Comments?
Jeff
Replies
Hi Jeff:
I've had good luck by making three-layered exterior doors. If you want a door that is, say 1 1/2" thick, start with 1/2" thick boards. Use epoxy to glue three layers together for each rail and stile. When the epoxy dries, then glue the cured rails and stiles together to form the door.
The layering and epoxy will minimize any opportunity for warping, and produce a very rigid door. By lengthening and shorting the middle layers of the three layer sandwich in the initial glue up, you can pre-form through mortises at the rail and stile joints. I usually let the middle layer of each rail run long, so that it will fit into the "mortise" left in each stile by letting their middle layers run short. After the final glueup, I run a shallow dado along each door edge, slightly wider than the middle layer width, and glue a tight spline in, so the exposed edges of the through tenons aren't exposed.
Douglas fir would be good, I would also consider white oak or mahogany.
Chuck
Thanks, I had not considered making laminations, that's a great idea. I have a vacuum setup so that would work very well for me. What do you think of using a urea formaldehyde wood glue instead of epoxy? That would also produce a very rigid bond as it cures very hard and is pretty water resistant as well. I'll have to 'think on this'...Jeff
Jeff:
No experience with urea glue...I live by the Chesapeake Bay, and all the boaters here swear by West System epoxy, so that is what I use for exterior work. One suggestion: make sure the surface the door members are curing on is itself nice and flat!
Jeff,
Hows about white oak?
Ooops, sorry 'bout that. I should have read all the posts.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/11/2008 1:48 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Urea formaldehyde will work just fine, we use it all the time on exterior doors & windows.
Please don't put in a fake door! Respect yourself and your home enough to use wood, even if you pay a "ridiculous" amount for a good door.
Solid wood, mortise and tenon, and if the door is exposed - will get sun and rain - epoxy; or if it is sheltered, then TBIII or equal glue is fine. We only laminate if we need to - you should have access to good VG Fir in the back yard. This is a fine door wood if you are not exposed. If exposed, then Honduras Mahogany is the only wood to use.
Whatever wood you use, bring it in to the shop, get it rough sized, then joint it all, wait a few days, joint again if needed, then plane, equalizing the cut on all 4 sides. When you dry fit the door together, stand it up and string the door to see if it is flat. If not, then rework tenons and/mortises to eliminate the twist. Then glue up on a dead flat surface, or 4 points, all dead flat in relation to each other.
Avoid any flat horizontal surface where water will sit. Sticking is more than decorative - just like floating panels, it has a real purpose beyond decoration.
Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Awesome looking doors on your website. THAT is what I'm talking about. THAT is what I want on my house.
My plan is to assemble my door on a dead flat torsion box assembly table. I live in W. Washington, it tends to rain here quite a bit. The door will have a western exposure. I have access to incredible straight grained doug fir, but given the exposure, I'm thinking mahogany is probably the best choice. If you think the Fir would hold up to the sun and rain, let me know, that would be my preference.
Thanks to everybody who has responded, it's helped me a great deal. Your comments helped validate my desire to go forward on this project and NOT go with the fiberglass imposter.
The cross lamination trick mentioned will eventually get more negative feedback with respect to cross grain gluing and longevity. Not saying it doesnt work, I have read many posts from professionals advising not to do so. Particularily given the humidity in your region. I would stick to M&T joinery similar to the pros. There is a lot of great discussions from professional door builders on the woodweb. Given your climate you might want to consider stave core for the rails and stiles if you cannot find any quarter sawn lumber. Keep in mind that building a entrance door is much different than a cabinet doors. With size and interior/exterior exposures comes a new set of problems. There has been a lot of thought and years experience to create doors like Acornw has on his website. As with anything, someone like him makes it look simple when in fact that is not the case. I thought the same before embarking on door building. Its fun, but can be frustrating. Arts and crafts is a good choice. The tooling for cope/stick gets pricey. Norm built a door on one of his shows, I was unimpressed given the quantity of pin nails and trim pieces he used, but it looked pretty nice when done.
Good luck
Brad
Jeff, I once saw great edge grain fir out here in AR, but not so much anymore. One thing to keep in mind, is , If you are using framing lumber, it will be a long way from being dry enough to use for these doors, even with a few weeks of sitting in the shop. so I hope you have a good meter to check it out. The Western exposure is going to be hard on the finish. It will break down any clear finish faster an more often that I would want to deal with, but it looks great. Can you still get good Western Cedar? I like how it looks even without a finish, and that sunshine will just make it better, and it will never need anything done to it. You didn't mention whether it is sheltered form the rain.
I have made a 'few' doors in my life. Not as good as yours I would assume BUT.I find white oak is more than OK. Honduras Mahogany is the only wood to use... I think the finest door I ever made was made from Purpleheart.. OK, so it turns a beautiful brown.By the way.. Great web pages!EDIT:I forgot to mention.. My next door neighbor just finished a new house. They fixed up the old one and a year later they demolished it and made this million dollar home on the land.. (million dollar .. Not sure.. but WAY to expensive for me)Beautiful front door (or is that doors?).. Guess what.. The finish is already coming off at the bottom of the doors! Geeeeeee.. Must be store bought stuff!
Edited 1/12/2008 8:45 am by WillGeorge
Dave,
Beautiful website, and beautiful work. I hope you don't mind if I ask you few questions. My wife's been on my a$$ for 3 years for a new front entrance door.
What is your preferred finish on your doors, and do you use the same finish for interior side as you use for the exterior design?
Are all the doors shown solid wood, or do you use that "stave door" construction? (I think that's what it's called, but not positive.)
When using raised panels, do you insulate where the panels meet the stiles/rails? If so, with what?
When installing a glass, such as stained glass, do you use an additional sheet of clear glass on the exterior for both protection, and additional insulation? (The custom stained glass I've seen is relatively thin, and I'm concerned about these cold, cold winters.)
Thanks for your time and knowledge, and again, beautiful work!!
Jeff
PS Do you know of a good website that discusses proper (in your eyes) door construction?
Jeff - Thanks for the compliments. Numbers 1 and 2 are Sikkens and solid, as above.
3. Whether we do a ploughed panel groove or a molded, assembled groove, we do proprietary things to help seal against water. I recommend a tight fit between the thickness of a solid panel (no insulation required) and its groove. Very tight. Calculate the width clearance, and realize most kiln dried woods will only expand from the point of fabrication to 2 yrs down the roads in service. That is, go from 6-8% to 9-11%, depending upon a gazillion factors. Length clearance can be near zero, since the panel will not expand in length. We have pattern grade H Mahogany panels in the weather, 12" wide that have not cracked the finish in 6 years - that is what makes the Mahogany so great - the stability. If you are concerned about "insulating" a panel, I think you can do no better than wood, eh? Raise or step the panel to make it thicker, or make the entire door thicker - most of our exterior doors are 2-1/4" thick, and allow for thicker panels, and feel great in service. And they never warp or get crazy. 4. We used to do a lot of art glass "sandwiches" with the art glass in the middle of an insulated panel. We now know that the art glass seals fail after only a few years in exposure, and then this makes for dust in the unit that can't be cleaned. This also caused the art glass to sag and move and causes seal failure and fogging in the unit. Yes, those container loads of imported "art" glass units are all failing at very high rates.
So we now recommend a "piggy back" affair. Insulated glass unit to the weather, stopped in with wood stops in sealant, then the Art glass panel set to the interior side with wood stops or an assembled wood frame. This can be removed for future cleaning, or restoration. In our Midwest climate, condensation forms only on the coldest, darkest days - below zero - between the art glass and i. g. unit.I would recommend against any single glazing in this climate, since condensation will form all winter, and will deteriorate the finish and reduce function.We build doors (and our other work) for the long term. The best - and greenest - use of wood is in well designed, functional, long lasting assembled wood objects that will stand the test of time in both taste and construction. Throwaway wood things (houses, crates, knick-knacks, etc), curb furniture, and cheap wood products are the opposite of "green," no matter how the wood is sourced or worked. Dave S
Also remember an exterior door is alway now days a minimum of 1 3/4" thick and can be made thicker as the door size goes up in width and height. A standard entry door is 36"x 80" 1 3/4" thick for a single door. Paduk is a great door wood to use. as well as the genuine Mahogany ( Honduran)
If you are going to change out the door jamb as well, consider using Q-lon weather strip on the sides and the head. If you have a great deal of exposure to the weather. Think about a water return threshold as well with a half wrap or full wrap door shoe with a drip edge.
This is all I will use on a door with a south or west exposure here near the ocean. Columbia aluminum or Pemco make them. Think tubular on the threshold. and caulk the ends with clear Alex plus or silicon.
Hinges should be 4"x4" hager, sugasuni ( Lamp), or Baldwin. if the door is out of a hardwood use ball bearing hinges and remember to place tape on the bearing's while installation so they don't fall out and you loose them. Pre drill all holes.
I could go on and on about installations. Oh also if you install a new jamb set it plumb and level the head and use a X string for the sissor in the jamb.
Jeff-
As for my 2 cents worth:
Q-sawn white oak is well worth the cost. Very strong, very weather resistant, very stable, and Gustav will smile down upon you.
As for glue, even though FWW gave it a bit of a bad rap, Gorilla glue is absolutely superb for exterior applications. I glued up an exterior door made of cypress for a shed on my concrete driveway, and after two years the squeeze-out from the glue is still there. It never washed away and the door is rock solid even though it has seen its share of bad weather.
Hope this helps,
Sean
some thoghts on material: I also live in a rain-prone climate. have seen and heard of many fir doors discoloring and eventually falling apart. I understand that, technically, fir has an OK rot resistance, but I wonder why they are so popular when white oak (NOT red oak) or mahogany would be a step up. Most fir doors aren't really even a 'fir door'--they're laminated. I also wonder at the popularity of soft woods (fir, pine) in wear-prone applications, period. I'm sure price has something to do with it. Make your own door, with beefy morises and tenons. More power to you!
Brian
Again, many thanks for the comments.
Would I be using framing lumbar for my fir? Absolutely...NOT. I have a small mill I use, the fir would be custom sawn for me in whatever form I need it in.
Western Cedar. I had thought of using cedar. I use it for all my outdoor wood furniture projects. I am nervous enough using a softwood in fir although fir can be pretty hard, I did not think cedar as being strong enough of a material for door construction, in spite of it's weather resistance. Seems like it would really be prone to dings and dents. I may be wrong about this however. The door is fairly well protected from direct contact with rain. Occasionaly when the wind is just right, it might get a little rain, but that's all.
White oak. I had not considered white oak for the door and I would question whether it is a better choice than mahogany. I don't know the answer to this. If it is equal to mahogany, then I likely would go with white oak due to it being a native wood species to North America.
Paduak? Bottom line is, as a woodworker, I can use...and will use...whatever material is superior (except for Teak. No teak). I have a fully equiped shop and can mill whatever can be legally purchased on the open market. Lastly, yes, of course the door will be built with M&T construction. I may even put a little custom stained glass in it. I'm starting to get stoked about this project!!
Fir is used extensively in the area since it is quite literally "in the way" of development, so it gets used for anything and everything -for better or worse. We don't get decent Fir here in the Midwest, so the 20 or so doors we have made from it were just fine, but we did have to give it some room to expand in the jamb. They were all sheltered and look fine except one, and it sprouted mildew stains and looks pretty ragged, but it is only cosmetic. We charge extra for factory installed "distress." The finish will fail in exterior use - don't delude yourself. The only differences in finishes is how soon they fail and how they will recoat. Polys, catalyzed, super epoxies and such are great at longer lasting, but when they fail, they do so catastrophically, and in such a way as makes recoat impossible and refinish near impossible. We recommend and use Sikkens to finish our exterior doors. When it fails, it looks worn and faded. Clean the door with mineral spirits and recoat, and your good for a good while. I don't care for stave core stiles for several reasons, the main one being that the game is to join pieces of wood together and put them in the weather. The fewer pieces of wood there are, the less parts there are to fail - especially down in the "combat zone" - at the door bottom. Stave cores will at least quadruple the glue surfaces, and likewise the potential for failure. Save the stave cores for rare woods, interior, etc. I usually advise against "amateurs" (pardon the assumption) making doors - especially exterior doors - since most "professionals" underestimate the complexity of the task. I have replaced many doors that cost a lot of money, but failed for all sorts of reasons, and the original maker was nowhere to be found. You won't have that problem. We like White Oak for the canted sills. Nothing wrong with using it for doors, but it moves more than Mahogany (unless the Oak is quartered), so it needs a bit more room at fitting. Lag the sill into the rabbeted jambs, and set it so the sill top is about 7/8" higher than your interior finish floor, so you have room for a walk-off rug.And as for Teak, it is fantastic. You don't have to finish it if you don't want to, and it will better than any of us. We have a Teak door in the office, and it never fails to turn heads. Working Teak is difficult, but there nothing that has a better scent than Teak. I could fill a book, and even have an outline of same. Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
I appreciate the advise about and against amateurs building exterior doors. Yes, that would be me. I am going to do a series of interior doors first in the hope that I make all my mistakes there and get enough experience to realistically build a decent exterior door. Thank you so much for your comments to myself and others. Finally, you comment on disposable products and building green is priceless. I hope you don't mind that I will be repeating those words. It's a strong argument.All the best....Jeff
Not to get off topic, but could you comment on the tooling to build a door such as the OP is contemplating. When I embarked on my interior door project (10 to build including basement) I didnt consider the tooling req'ts and have spent a bundle on cutters to make the rebates, big tenons and a groover for the panels. I also ended up buying a 1hp mortise machine. Now I will admit I am nuts when it comes to machines, but I suspect many are. The shaper is the most wonderful machine I own, but the fancy cutters it likes get pricey. I suppose the OP can use hand tools for some components, but if not say a wizard at dovetails, the end result may not look nowhere near the quality of yours. How many hours would you estimate into a single door and frame from start to finish (planning, stock selection, ordering, machining, glue-ups, sanding, and finish ready for delivery)? Bet this will surprise many.
Doesnt look like you have a run of the mill finish on your doors. Pretty darn perfect for someone to emulate by hand. My first attempt at a door is attached. Still to this day I hate the finish. Far to imperfect, and I resanded three times trying to improve it.
By the way, great site, and beautiful work.
Brad
The tooling is difficult - no other way to say it. We have several shapers and several dedicated cope and stick sets along with a tenoner and 2 types of mortisers. The essential tools are a good joiner and the ability to straighten boards longer than the infeed table with it. A good and accurate planer for consistent thicknessing. Router with a 1/2" x 2" spiral bit, and accurate table saw. A shaper or very accurate router table to make moldings and do ploughs will also be needed. This level of tooling will enable a square edged wood door that can be dressed up with rabbeted moldings to help seal the panels and drain water. Shaper tooling is the way to go, but it bifurcates: One way is large diameter tooling (6" diam min) with a 1-1/4" spindle and 6hp or more this will enable making a tenon and copes at the same time, with a tenon table or dedicated sled.
The other way is with the old Rockwell-Delta stub spindle inserts that go into the bearing cartridge of their old shapers. These were developed 60 years ago for tenon making. The spindle is tapped on the top, and receives cutters (1/2" ID) that are retained with a tapered recessed cap screw so a tenon can pass over the top or the spindle. This allows the already made tenon to be any length, and keeps the diameter/expense of the cutter way down. The copes can be made by fencing from the shoulder of the tenon, one side at a time. The new type router bits for this are the only off the shelf type tooling, but are primitive and very limited. You can't vary the thickness dimensions, and you get lost on divided lights and offsets. Think it through and either choose square edge or squint and spark some old HSS 3 wing cutters to work with the stub spindle. Again, it takes a book.Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Edited 1/13/2008 12:14 pm ET by acornw
"The best - and greenest - use of wood is in well designed, functional, long lasting assembled wood objects that will stand the test of time in both taste and construction. Throwaway wood things (houses, crates, knick-knacks, etc), curb furniture, and cheap wood products are the opposite of "green," no matter how the wood is sourced or worked."Excellent comment, good looking website, and even more beautiful doors. Here's hoping your success rivals or even exceeds ThomasMoser.com.
Dave,That's excellent coverage right up to the point about the new router bits. You may not be aware of the current offerings.
These make long tenons the way the old stub spindle shapers did but with the advantage of being much easier to set for height:
http://www.freudtools.com/p-208-entry-interior-door-router-bit-set.aspx
And we just introduced French Door sets that will make either true divided lite doors or simulated divided lites.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
French doors are made in France, we make paired divided light doors. True "French" style doors can best be seen in the US at the Biltmore in Asheville NC. 3" thick doors, with very narrow stiles, rabbeted together at the mating stiles, deep ogees for sticking, divided lights. These doors are windows much more than doors, but are hinged to be open in fair weather. The mass marketing of "French" doors and the resultant mangling of the terminology should not extend to router bits. The factory doors are bad enough that we all should know better than to emulate them. Although I imagine you didn't have anything to do with the naming/marketing.I would suggest to tool makers that they take Freud's design three steps further and do so with replaceable copes and sticks on threaded shafts.Just my opinion,
Dave S
Dave,While I agree with you regarding the misuse of the term "French Doors", I fear that the damage is done and it is now so widely used to describe double divided lite doors that it's too late to re-educate the public. For the marketing folks I'm sure the question was "Do we want to call it a French Door set or a Divided Lite Door set".Interesting idea regarding the replaceable cutters. What would be the advantage?
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Thanks. I asked this largely for the group as I have discovered some of what you mention the hard way. I use a Garniga Multi Iso cutter that will allow me to make up to 2.5" tenons on shaper for tenons, one pass, perfect ever time (interior doors only).
Brad
Hey Dave...when you get that door book published, sign me up, I'll buy a copy! These days with desktop publishing and the internet, it's relatively easy to publish a book, so...giterdun!!Best Regards,Jeff
I have written to our mutual, very nearby friend twice about the book, and haven't even had the courtesy of a rejection notice. Curious since when I teach, it is a major point of interest for many woodworkers. More doable than a Norm/kitchen. Maybe I need to invest in some flannel shirts. There are other publishers, and since I'm thinking of a retirement project, I'm hoping for the mass market. Tom Clancy and Doors - something like that. Dave S
Not to highjack the thread, but I too would love to build our entry door on our current remodel. With all the other work it may be some time. I love the Arts & Crafts door with sidelites on your site that is what I want to do to replace the 6'0 solid metal entry door (yuk) in the house. I would like a 48" entry door with maybe 9" lites any troubles with a 4' door?
Thanks Jeff
Steel doors are being replaced by fiberglass which cost more but eleminate problems with steel. Don't waste your time building a door unless you live in a very stable climate. Here in the Ohio valley, we have high humidity in summer and central heat in winter. Wooden doors are not efficient here as they shrink in winter and swell in summer. You cannot control the forces of nature. You can only work with them or work around them.
Dave,Your website is gorgeous.Until you finish that text of yours, can you recommend a book on exterior door construction?David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Thanks for the compliments. One reason I want to do a book is that there are no really good books out there. One by J. Burchard (sp?) is the best of the lot, but is still limited in scope. Most books are barely descriptive, much less about what is inside a door, making it work. There are 2 or more books from the late 70's on "California craft makers" and such. Interesting in a dated sort of way, but still short on what is actually going on. Gary Katz has a good book on setting doors. Nothing wrong with a 4' wide door as long as the tenons are long and well fit. With a rigid door, the frame needs to be well set, and good ball bearing hinges are in order. I like Emtek - good quality and good price. Of course, draw it all out to scale so you know what things will look like. The mulled frame between a 4' door and glazed sidelight will need to be about 3" to resist moving with the weight of the door. Consider making the sidelight stiles structural to help reinforce the mull. There is no reason a door can't be 43-1/2" or 39-15/16" wide.There is absolutely no reason to not use wood doors in most locations. Wood is actually the most preferred and proper material for doors in any climate in the US. The movement is not a problem for a professional. The problem is that the non-wood door industry has hyped (spent billions) their c**p on us for so long most of us have never used a real wood door, and the professional people that made them and fitted them have mostly passed on. So now that same predatory industry creates and preys upon our collective insecurity to convince us we don't want what we want. Sustainable, nice to the touch and the eye, versatile, warm, familiar and welcoming, there is nothing like the real thing. Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Just butting in there was an article on building entry doors in FWW a year or two ago also back in the late 80's there was one as well. Also the much loved/loathed Norm made one on his show last year. Anyway go for it it's lots of fun.Troy
I did a new front door for my house last year. It is made out of claro walnut and I made the stiles and rails out of built up pieces. Each rail and stile is made up of 3 layers. The grain is all running in the same direction and I used titebond 3 to glue it up. The stiles and rails are held together with floating tenons and I cut the mortises with a plunge router with a spiral bit. After a year of use it has remained straight and plumb. For a finish I used marine varnish from west marine. A fun project. My door is north facing and on a covered porch. From what I have seen The sun exposure is something to consider with your finish. Good luck with your project.
Troy
Beautiful. Don't you just love Walnut? I think it's one of the most beautiful woods to be had. Very nice door. About the same design I am considering. Thanks.
Thanks, walnut is one of my favorite'sTroy
Last summer I ran across a fellow who had 700 bf of air dried black walnut for sale. He wanted quite a bit for it. I grabbed my moisture meter, a hand plane, and a water bottle and went to look at it. He claimed it was 30 years old and had always been stored inside a barn. He had planed one side of each board to show the color and grain, it was magnificent looking wood although in rough sawn form. I offered him significantly less than what he was asking...in cash. He sputtered and huffed and puffed, arguing that it was worth a fortune. I patiently explained how much work it was to turn it into something useful & how much material I was going to lose in the process and that I was taking a risk but he held firm. So did I, and I left. He called me the next day and told me to come get it. It's now in my shop waiting for a variety of projects.
Good move. I know you can loose an awful lot of wood when you mill it to size. I had that problem with with the walnut for the door I made. I actually made two doors one for the back of my house and one for the front. The back door I made out of poplar and I used one 18" wide buy about 10' board and had almost no waste. With the Walnut I thought I could mill the parts out of 5/4 stock and glue it up to make a sandwich of two 5/4 boards to get 1and13/16 inch thick but no such luck. I ended up with a three board thick sandwich of wood. Anyway have fun with the walnut.Troy
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