Hello,
I am making a desk out of walnut and the client wants it to be a dark color (java). The wood I ended up with has a lot of sapwood in it and I can’t afford to buy new. I thought I could dye the wood and blend the sapwood after reading many articles on the subject. I would like to know if I am going this dark can I get good results and would it be best to build in sections then glue up after dying? Will the dye effect the glue up?
thanks for any help,
tony
Replies
I use water-soluble dyes a lot and in my experience it does not negatively impact the strength of glue bonds. I imagine that's because the dye does not seal the wood at all.
The "Java" coloured furniture I have seen in catalogs and stores tend to show no grain or very little of it. Is this what the customer want? Dying wood does not hide its grain. It is a good first step to get a uniform colour though. Follow that with a dark gel stain and you can get grain-less Java coloured wood as in the attached picture of a piece I built a couple years back or so. It is made out of birch. Walnut being more expensive I would not use it for such an application though.
If the goal is to still see the grain then a dark dye should work. Of course testing would be necessary.
This is close to the color I am looking for and hope the walnut will not need so much darkening to hide the grain totally. I got the walnut for $1.50 pre sf so the price isn't an issue as much as not having to bury it in color. I am hoping to leave some contrast in the grain for the look I am trying to achieve.
By the way the vanity is gorgeous!
tony
OK, so we want to see the grain. I managed to dig a plank from the pile from my last project (https://www.finewoodworking.com/item/18465/provence-dining-table) where I too toyed with the idea of blending the sapwood in the walnut top. Attached is a picture of what it looks like with a brown walnut aniline dye from Lee Valley (product 56Z01.01). The plank is mostly sapwood so it does not give a good idea of how the dye would affect the darkwood but at least it shows the grain is still clearly visible even with no finish applied. I did other samples too using pigment oil stains but none even came close to giving me this uniform rich brown colour.For my project I ended up not staining the wood because the customer really liked the sapwood-darkwood contrast.
Sen:The vanity is great.Where did you find the bull nosed granite tile? Or how did you get the thick bullnose with tile?Thank you for your help.Hastings
Hastings said: "Where did you find the bull nosed granite tile?"I got the tiles from a local store. I dug up the receipt and it does not say who the manufacturer is. I think it may have been Benissimo: http://www.benissimosystems.com/Granite+Solutions/default.aspx.Using tiles like this cost about half of what a custom made granite slab top would have cost us. The only thing I am somewhat unhappy about is the grout recommendation made by the store clerk. He suggested an epoxy-based grout because it never needs to be sealed unlike most other grout types. I found it very difficult to work it into the shallow V-groove joints. It was so sticky it kept coming out of the joints as I was trying to smooth it. It also did not pack so well into the joints. I guess I am saying I would try to avoid epoxy-based grout if I had to do it again.
You might consider experimenting with some "sappy" boards first, to see what is needed to get the final look you want. I've often read of using touchup guns to blend sap with heartwood, but don't know how easy this really is. Additionally, the color used to darken the sapwood might fade over time.
One way to achieve a uniform color that should stay uniform might be to bleach all the wood, so that the heartwood more closely resembles the sap, and then darken everything. Bleaching certainly is an extra step, but might be simpler than blending, et cetera. Just another thought.
This is something I haven't thought about. A real good option and something I will experiment with.Thanks for this outstanding suggestion.
tony
I recently completed a walnut dinning table for a client and had to blend some sapwood also! http://www.flickr.com/photos/chaimgottesman/sets/72157619256842577/
I used a water soluble dye stain and got great results! It doesn't hide the grain like stains do. I would recommend filling the grain if your going to want an even textured finish. This can either highlight the grain or bend it even more. Just do your homework (lots and lots of test pieces) Make sure that all the products you use are compatible and one wont effect the other negatively.
Chaim
The table is beautiful. A project that would be out of my league for the moment.
tony
I also think the table looks very good. Can you explain a bit how you dealt with the sapwood? Carefully apply dye just to the sap? Dye everything? And of course, how dark? Just had a feeler today for a walnut tabletop, and very concerned about sapwood, which I expect will be in most or all of the lumber if the job materializes.
Thanks for sharing.
Here is an explanation of how I dealt with the sap wood and finished the table.
first I sanded up to 220 then I raised the grain by wetting with a damp rag (water)
After it dried, I re sanded with 220 but only lightly so as to remove the fuzz.
Next I dampened the sap wood and died it close to the color I wanted being carful not to go over my border! After it dried I again dampened the wood then applied a lighter dye to the whole table. This helps blend in the differing wood tones.
After it dried I applied a home brewed Danish oil.
2 parts Olympic wiping poly, 1 part turpentine, 1/2 part teak oil, 1/2 part tung oil
It is not an exact science and things can differ depending on the brands you use!
ALWAYS test on scrap first!!! long term and short term. What I mean by that is see how the finish reacts after curing. If it sticky, wet, tacky somethings not right.
This mixture seems to work for me. I use it to pop the grain by applying one or two coats but you can also build it up on the surface for a slight sheen.
Next I laid in a coat of dewaxed superblond shellac. After it dried I lightly sanded with 400 grit to remove any bumps and raised grain. Be carful not to cut through your previous work!!! I then finished with 3 coats of water based gloss poly.
I was planning on rubbing out the finish after it cured with steel wool and paste wax because I hadn't filled the grain. In the mean time I had to get it out of my shop and into the clients home to work on the leaves because It took up almost my entire shop!
The clients then fell in love with the glossy finish so no rubbing out for me! (or the table too)
Attached is a pine bed side stand with a slight surface build of my home brewed Danish oil!
Hope this helps,
Chaim
Tony,
I recently used a process similar to the one Chaim recommended to blend some sap wood in a walnut project. The final color was not quite java but with a darker glaze I think I could have gotten there. The first two of the attached pics shows the spots of sap wood before I started with the Transtint dye. (The spots are in the middle of one of the pieces and at the end of the other.) The third pic is after applying a water based dye color similar to the adjacent heart wood. The fourth is after applying a slightly darker dye to the whole piece which really evened out the colors. I then sealed with shellac, applied a glaze, more shellac and then Target's Ultima Spray Lacquer which is great.
I will mention just in case you have not worked with dye before that you can not tell the final color from the way it looks after it has dried. Do a test piece with all the steps including a top coat. I will also add that the glaze (a Bartlet's gel stain) added a lot of depth to the finish. It was a big improvement over the dye and top coats alone.
Hope that helps.
Chris
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