Replies

1. 
   43Billh | Mar 21, 2008 01:54am | #1

   Zolton,

   Oneida dust Gorllia.

   You will be happy!

   Bill

1. 
   zolton | Mar 21, 2008 02:04am | #2

   Bill,

   Thanks for your reply. The Dust Gorilla was one of the ones I've been looking at. It appears to be a well built, simple and solid machine. Pricewise, it's a bit spendy for me, especially so considering that the collector itself is only one part of the investment. There are blast gates and ducts to consider as well..

   ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon

1. 
   43Billh | Mar 21, 2008 08:12pm | #5

   Yeah the price stings a little.

   In my case, had I gone with a cyclone right up front I would still be ahead money wise.

   But instead I messed around with several versions of dust collection before I went cyclone.

   Best wishes

2. 
   Jfrostjr | Mar 21, 2008 04:05pm | #3

   I don't really think there is a choice. Onieda Dust Gorilla! I made the switch to the cyclone 18 months ago and I am continually amazed at how much cleaner my shop is.

   You mention "wood flour in the canister" - I never get any dust, or whatever, in the canister. It all ends up, somehow, at the cyclone barrel. The biggest change I have noticed is that I don't get the "puff of dust" as the bags snap open when the bag-type starts up. Good luck in your search.

   Frosty

   "I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922

3. 
   SparrowHawk | Mar 21, 2008 05:22pm | #4

   For what it's worth, I'd also recommend the cyclone. I bought my Oneida before the gorilla was out but it's probably about the same .. 1.5HP. They do all the design free and yes, it is up high on the ceiling with drops at all your machines. The thing to remember with dust collection (or vacuum cleaners) is that it is air flow that does the work .. vacuum means absolutely nothing - like those stupid commercials that show a vacuum picking up a bowling ball .. any fully clogged vacuum can do that. What I'm getting at is that the larger diameter pipe (within reason of course), the better the airflow and the better dust collection. Also consider floor space ... a roll around collector is probably going to be getting in your way. The cyclones can even be put outside your shop in a covered location and still work perfectly (and be quieter)- but they're not bad space-wise, in a corner.

   You are right that the hoses/pipes/blast gates etc. do add a significant amount, but once done you will never have to replace them. Whatever you buy be sure to consider your health too ... a few bucks spent now could save you a lot of misery and expense later.

   Ken

4. 
   Don01 | Mar 21, 2008 09:29pm | #6

   Zolton,
   You can spend money to keep your shop reasonabley clean and so so for your lungs, and you can spend money to keep both the shop and your lungs very clean.

   Go visit Bill Pentz' site and get educated.

   http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

   Once you know what you need, you can make choices based of finances, shop size etc.

   Until you get to where you need to be,m make sure you wear a very good disposable respirator - 3M 8293 is a right at the top in performance and price.

   If you decide to go with one of the 1 1/2 to 2 HP dust pumps, avoid the bag. The cartridge is more money but I believe it will help keep the unit running at the highest rate. The average bag provides less than 50 sq ft of surface area. A pleated cartridge will give you over 200. Once you male that decision, the dollar difference shrinks considerably and you will see the cyclone as the best option.

   Hope this helps.

   Don

1. 
   zolton | Mar 21, 2008 11:10pm | #7

   Don, Ken, Bill,

   Hm. This is coming down hard on the side of a cyclone from many different sources!

   I have read Bill Pentz's site and found it full of valuable information. And I am, of course, concerned about the longterm health of my lungs.

   However, I'm still finding it hard to differentiate between a bag collector with 1 micron bags and a cyclone with, seemingly, a similar amount of filtration. 1 micron is 1 micron, is it not?

   And, if a chip separator can be incorporated into a bag type system, wouldn't it pretty much work out the same in terms of CFM's and dust filtration, all else being equal? I understand that there are advantage to the cyclone system, and I'm not entirely ruling it out. But I'm still choking on the price. Better that, I guess, than choking on sawdust, eh?

   By the way, the Penn State collector I mentioned before, the DC2000B is available with a canister type filter: $390 vs $260 for the bagged one...Again though, if they filter to the same degree, what's the major difference other than a bit of bother when emptying the bottom bag? The canister filter model is designed to use plastic bags on the bottom, which would be a convenience.

   Still got some thinking and working out to do on all this..

   Zolton 

    If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon

1. 
   BG | Mar 22, 2008 12:34am | #8

   Zolton,
   I'm kinda in the same boat as you except I pulled the trigger on a 1.5 Jet with cannister mid-Jan. for $479. So your prices are looking very good. Before buying I studied Bill's issues and, quite frankly, felt a bit overwhelmed. Bill stresses the need for massive air flows that would seem to require a 6" port on the machinery and then minimum distance from the DC through properly designed tubing. The key in his design being to capture the fine dust and filtering the air through a 1/2 or 1 micron filter. I just don't see where the cyclone aspect contributes to that outcome, I mean its nice and all, but how does it help with fine dust.
   Anyhow, my shop is small and I need to move equipment to operate. I'm currently attaching the DC to the machinery with a 4" quick connect at about a distance of 3-4 feet. It has made a big difference in the air quality. If I had my druthers I'd probably buy a second DC (the $250 model) and dedicate that to the bandsaw, router table and maybe the workbench. I just don't see a whole lot of value in tubing all over the floor, it scares me a bit.
   But I will continue to read and learn more and be ready to change my mind...

   Edited 3/21/2008 5:45 pm ET by BG

2. 
   QCInspector | Mar 22, 2008 04:08am | #9

   A cartridge filter would be better than a bag of the same 1 micron rating because the reduced surface area of the bag means the blower has to work harder to get the air through especially when the fine dust builds. With all that air trying to get through the bag the finer particles are pushed through that might not if there was more surface area. The cartridge filter gives you that larger area in a small size but the large particles also fill it in a hurry. The cyclone takes out the larger particles so that the filters only deal with the very fine particles. If you had a bag that was about 7' across and 10' high you would have the same filtering area as a cartridge filter does, and there wouldn't be any difference. The cyclone itself is another kind of chip separator, but a very efficient one.

5. 
   Lowell | Mar 22, 2008 06:56am | #10

   I resolved the which-dust-collection-device-do-I-buy quandry when I found the Delta 50-761 2HP Single Stage Dust Collector on sale for $529 a couple of years ago. It has twin 1-micron bag filters, twin plastic collection bags, three 4" intake ports, runs on 220V and sits on four casters.

   I've been using short lengths of 4" flexible hose to connect a benchtop table saw, router table and miter saw to the DC. Works a treat when cutting red oak, poplar, douglas fir, and MDF (mostly laminate flooring). Should I ever get around to installing 6" ducting, the intake ports fixture can be removed to reveal a 6" port.

   Cheers,

   Lowell

1. 
   zolton | Mar 22, 2008 02:49pm | #11

   Lowell,

   That Delta unit looks like a nice setup, and something I should consider. Space is kind of a consideration though, and this looks a little large for the area where I'm going to have to locate it.

   Thanks for the input..

   ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon

1. 
   zolton | Mar 24, 2008 11:35pm | #12

   OK, I've been putting myself through the mill on this cyclone vs conventional "dust pump" situation. So I went back to square one and started over. Maybe my agony will help some of you get a handle on what your actual dust collection needs are. Starting from scratch sure did it for me...

   After gathering all sorts of information about dust collection, dust collectors and cyclones, I suddenly realized that I was starting in the wrong place. I first needed to determine what my dust collection requirements were before I could decide on what to do about them - and how large a unit would take care of those needs.

   For that, I turned not online, but to my public library, where I picked up a book entitled "Controlling Dust in the Workshop," by Rick Peters. This proved to be quite valuable. It gave tables listing static pressure losses for every duct size and fixture, and CFM requirements for most of the common shop tools. It walked me though the entire process. Though I'm pathologically math impaired, I sat down and figured out what it would take to do the job.

   My shop is small. And I've got the dust-producing tools pretty well confined to one area of it. So that makes the duct runs shorter. Plus, I don't own heavy duty equipment - the largest dust-producer being a 12 inch planer. That, too, made it easier to downsize the system.

   Taking Peters's advice to heart - and that given by the Knotheads here who were so generous as to share their experiences - I placed the order today for Penn State's smallest cyclone. And I paid up for the .5 micron cartridge filter model instead of the 1 micron bag. It was a stretch of my budget, but hey, we're supposed to be getting some of our own dough back from the Feds in a few months, eh? Yes, I'll be the one trying to keep the economy going.  

   The next part of this venture will be to install the cyclone and ductwork when it comes. And one of the most challenging things will be to configure dust collection on my 25+ year old Makita 2030 combination jointer/planer. It was never set up for that, and I'm going to have fabricate pickups. Get out the gloves and Band-Aids; sheet metalwork here I come. Peters's book does give some good illustrative ideas about how this can be accomplished, and I'm opitmistic that I'll be able to cobble up something reasonable without producing too much bloodshed.  

   Anyway, I'll keep you updated, and post some photos of the system in play when I get done..

   ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Mar 25, 2008 06:52pm | #13

   Zolton,

   now that I'm so broke I can't even pay attention..

   Now that's a hoot!

   I see you made your decision to go with the Penn State cyclone.  Good for you and the best of luck with it.  I went the Delta 50-760 single stage bagger route and am pleased with it so far. 

   One thing I've found so far is that it's somewhat of a tinkering process till ya get all the tinks outa it but don't despair; you'll git 'er done.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!