I just bought some 4x4x6′ post from HD and a few of them are pretty wet. I want to use them to build a frame for a work bench, but also want to let them dry. Any input on letting them dry without having them split, warp or twist? I know pine isn’t the best for work benches, but I got the posts from the “somebody made a mistake cutting this” pile. It was less than 1/2 price.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Replies
I would coat the endgrain with paraffin wax and stack and sticker them. Do you have a moisture meter? I did something similar with 2x10's and smaller 2x stock for building John White's Newfangled bench. Moisture meter gives you objective data on the moisture content.
PS: stack even those that don't seem "pretty wet", as they probably still have a very high moisture content.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/19/2009 3:05 pm by forestgirl
Thanks for your help. I will wax and stack in the morning. And then shop for a moisture meter.
Hopefully, you know that it might take several months for your lumber to dry. Depending on your climate, it might take one year per inch of thickness.
If you neeed your bench sooner, it might be better to bite the bullet and buy KD lumber. - lol
"I'm sorry, Dear. I won't be able to start that project of yours for a couple of years. I need to wait for the legs of my future bench to dry. I guess I'm stuck watching Sunday football until then." ;-)
I assume the workbench frame will be pretty heavy-duty, since you are using 4x4. With bracing, leg stretchers, etc. all bolted/lagged together, the impact of wood movement as it dries would be minimal, IMO. I'd just tee it up, actually. Maybe use slotted holes to attach the top, to allow for movement there.
It is very unlikely that the 4x4's are pine, they are probably Douglas fir, which is a fairly stable wood and will dry well. At most HDs, at least here in the northeast, the 4x4's are kiln dried.
If yours are really wet they are quite possibly either pressure treated or green southern yellow pine, which I have been told HD sells as framing lumber in some areas of the country. The newest PT wood isn't nearly as dark colored as the older versions and can be mistaken for untreated wood.
In any case sticker the wood well up off of the floor in a dry heated area to dry the wood out further. Seal the ends right away to prevent end checking. For the little bit of wood you have just use duct tape to seal the ends. If the wood is really wet it will take several months to dry out.
John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Edited 9/22/2009 12:21 pm ET by JohnWW
John - Umm.... well......sorry.....not to be argumentative, but.......
Definitely depends on where the OP lives. In the NE USA, it is almost certainly SYP. If we are talking the Pacific NW, then different story and I can fill in those gaps as well. The lumber mills that supply the PT producers generally kiln-dry as part of the production process (some small mills will sticker + air dry). Trees to logs to sawmill to kiln to planermill. That's how it goes. They stamp it as "KD" for "kiln-dried". And it IS kiln-dried - as untreated lumber. Then they ship to the treating plant, who pumps water into it under serious pressure to get the dissolved/suspended chemical into the cell structure quickly. Water is the carrier for the chemical. It is now wet by definition.
The point I was making is that there is a small amount of product out there that, AFTER it is treated will then be put in a kiln at the PT plant. This is called kiln-dried AFTER-TREATING, or KDAT. Not kiln-dried, or "KD" which is stamped on like 99% of the softwood lumber we buy (SPF studs, SYP, etc), but KDAT. Different animal. Starts out the same, but then evolves (intelligent design?).
I have found that most of the retail walk-in places (borg or other) don't know this. Most of them don't carry it, because (a) they don't understand and can't up-sell, (b) there is not a big retail demand for it (c) Joe Homeowner wouldn't pay the $$. And (d) the pro consumers know what it is and have their supply chains sorted out, for when they need it for a higher-end project. Solid + stable. Ain't gonna move like regular PT. I would have bought it in a heartbeat for ALL my fence and deck projects over the years, but it is darn hard to source. Structural wood foundations are a good example of KDAT use. AFAIK, any "fire retardant" PT plywood has to be KDAT as well.
On your point about color - In the retail stores, the wood has to be end-tagged with the PT information - EPA, chemicals, all that - Big Bro' is looking out for us, but bring your reading glasses. Plus, the price for PT is higher than untreated, and you know the store wants the scanner to hit the right price, so it's pretty easy to understand what is PT and what is not - regardless of color - read the fine print if you are not sure. And you are right - the ACQ & CA products that replaced CCA a few years ago do not have the "green tint" we all know and love from our youth..
Sorry, but you pitched one into my wheelhouse. Whew. I'm worn out.
In the NE, where I live all of the construction lumber, at HD and elsewhere, is SPF out of Canada or the NW USA. HD generally sells green stock, most of the better local yards sell KD. All of the untreated 4x4's I've seen up here have been DF, and always KD even at HD. All of the pressure treated appears to be SYP and is always very wet.The original poster said he got the wood at a HD in the bargain bin already cut to shorter lengths, so the end with the PT tags may be missing.John W.Edited 9/22/2009 3:30 pm ET by JohnWW <!-- JOHNW153 -->
Edited 9/22/2009 3:30 pm ET by JohnWW
Good point - I guess I missed that detail. I was talking about PT only, of course. HF would be a long way from home there, eh? Thanks for yanking the chain a bit.
Spot and JWW: The pressure treated wood I'm familiar with has marks all along its surface -- look a little like staple-marks -- I assume where the chemical is injected or something. Is this not a universal mark, so-to-speak, of PT lumber?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG - Folks in the east are saying "Huh?" about your staple-marks in the surface.
It is species-specific, so that means region-specific, due to freight costs. SW, MW, and Eastern US (roughly speaking) use Southern Yellow Pine (SYP) for the most part, though you will see Red Pine in the upper Midwest, and maybe other bits-and pieces in certain locales. The cell structure of SYP is ideal for accepting the water-borne chemical solution in the PT process. But - there is a tipping point on delivered cost of finished product to the retail stores, and it becomes too expensive to use SYP way out yonder.
Some species are basically non-treatable, like SPF (I think Doug Fir also). Others, like Hem Fir (and Pon Pine, I think), can be treated, but are more difficult to get penetration of the chemical solution, so those timbers need to be be "incised". That is what you are seeing - basically Rockies and West.
Before treating the wood, the PT producer runs these timbers through an incisor machine - it has steel drums with protrusions that make those marks you are seeing - little slices into the surface (maybe 3/8" deep by 3/4" long by 1/8" wide - memory is foggy - they close up from treating process), giving the chemical solution access to the fiber below the surface of the timber. Think of a road construction project, where they have a compacting machine with steel drum roller, with finger-like things compacting the soil.
Thanks, Spotcheck, I hadn't known that there were such differences in pressure-treating different species. Ours (Puget Sound, Pacific Northwest) would be Doug Fir.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
When I wanted to use 4X4's for the legs of my bench, I was disappointed to find that all 4X4's are now pressure treated -- not what I wanted.
So, I face-glued 2X4's. When the glue was dry, I did some jointing and planing -- and they look good. Certainly not "furniture grade" good, but for my workbench, in my shop, they're good.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
No, your supplier chose to carry only pressure treated 4x4's. "They don't make them any more" is very much the equivalent of "the check is in the mail."
Certainly any sawmill that produces 4x4's for treating, is producing untreated 4X4's first. The trick lies in finding a yard that carries, or will order, untreated 4X4's.It's at least as difficult as the task I've been working on -- finding 5/4 or 6/4 select cypress. There's tons of places that have/will order it in 4/4. So far, none of the thicker stuff in the higher grades.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
".........The trick lies in finding a yard that carries, or will order, untreated 4X4's........"
Exactly right, especially since the demand is low. I wouldn't have a problem using PT for many applicaitons. I also wouldn't have a problem with glue-up of 2x4, 5/4 x 4, etc - depends on how much effort you think is warranted.
Rather than glue up 2x4's you would likely be better off ripping 2x8's and then gluing. That way you can eliminate the warp prone juvenile wood so common in the 2x4s.
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