Hi – I am brand new here and have the following question:
I recently acquired a mid-century teak G Plan dining table, which is an absolute joy to behold. There were one or two fine surface scratches which I thought to deal with at some point, but then he following happened: a friend placed a hot tea cup directly on the table without using the mats that were available and after he left I noticed a ring stain on the table which made me really mad, as you can imagine… why had he done this?! In a kind of rage I reached for a dishwasher scourer and rubbed away in the hope of removing the stain, not thinking that I was also removing the surface finish!
The result is a light patch on the table which I dearly want to return to normal, but does this mean treating the entire table surface or can I just work on that small area with a stain and/or hard wax oil or other product?
I understand that the table surface is a teak veneer and am sure that my rubbing hasn’t affected that at all. I have attached a couple of photographs, the second of which has a light reflection which should be ignored. I look forward to hearing from someone – many thanks in advance, John.
Replies
I can't see the .heic photos, please convert to .jpg?
Strangly if you click them they download and are viewable for me...they are .heic. which i never heard of before.
Im on Linux though...maybe he is too.
Ah, .heic is an Apple thing. because of course it is...
If you apply a small amount of acetone itll make shellac or a varnish tacky.
If its laquer it will dissolve. and if it beads up its a poly.
I guess from there you can carefully strip the top finish off and reapply.
Or maybe you could try just touching it up with whatever you find is the finish first.
worst that happens is it doesnt work out and you take it all back.
You also make some coasters to keep on the table for next time hehe.
I think for future reference the ring that forms from hot objects isnt something you can scrub off. its a chemical change in the finish.
Someone correct me if im wrong on that.
Sorry, jpegs are attached below.
When you say 'take it all back', I assume you mean the finish, not to the shop where it was bought in the '70s…
My understanding is that it's polyurethane (though I can check, as described - thanks), but I don't understand how the colour has gone. Does the finish make the colour? If it is a poly, any idea what kind?
I did have coasters, but he ignored them (my former friend). So, scrubbing (or similar) would have to have happened anyway if the stain can't be removed otherwise?
Yeah, I don't download on the first date... my network guy would cut my throat!
Looking at the images Bentusi was kind enough to re-post it looks like end grain running into the top at the edges... are you certain it's veneer? Can't be sure from these photos.
Pretty certain as there's chipboard underneath the underside veneer. I know because I had to remove a glued block to dismantle the table to get it through my door and a little piece came away.
LOL. Downloaded automatically for me. I wasent expecting it.
Doubt if it was malicious it would be targeted at my OS anyway.
Almost everything is designed for Windows.
The finish changes the color.
Raw wood is always lighter.
Yeah the damage would have resulted in it taking the finish back but ideally in a more controlled manner rather than a frantic panic with kitchen scrubbers lol.
I dont know if its worth losing a friend over XD.
The problem is the finish, not the friend. Mid century furniture was finished with thin oil varnish mixtures that did not age well. The so-called natural finishes required upkeep and eventually needed restauration. In your case, it was sanded and restaured but with a fragile finish that did not resist the light agression of a cup of tea. A proper danish oil would have resisted such a light abuse and the scuffing.
Ah, so the finish on this 1966 era table may not be the original one is what you're saying? I was only kidding about the ex-friend… he is a carpenter, so I expected him to have more respect for my new able, though he may have expected it to be tougher…
I have read elsewhere that original G Plan finishes from the period could be very hard to remove without industrial solvent. I guess what I need to know is 'what exactly IS the finish' and someone has helpfully made suggestions above, so that's something to follow up. But is there another alternative? Can I just apply some oil or wax to the entire table top now in the hope that the colour will even out, especially if I rub more into the affected area? Would Danish or teak oil be useful here?
Just take at least the top back down to wood.
Like mj said if you got through it with a kitchen scrubber that easy then it would only take another 20 minutes if you have a sander.
Then you can even have the joy of applying a fresh finish over the whole thing.
Since it seems so easy to remove why not just continue? Trying to match the patch will bite you. It could bite you now with a mistake, or later as the old finish and the patch go their own ways as they age.
Saving a little effort now is probably a mistake in the long term. "In the hope of" is not a strategy for success.
I have read elsewhere NOT to use a sander on the veneer surface, but to do it by hand. It's a little nerve-racking for me to consider taking the whole table surface (both halves plus the extension) back to wood… what about the solid teak border, presumably that would be taken back, too?
If I go that route, and there are plenty of helpful videos, do I still need to dissolve the existing finish with a remover fluid?
Did you say you saw the veneering? How thick is it?
The finish that's on there looks thin, like Gulfstar mentioned.
If it were me, I’d use a sander with 150-grit paper — I bet it would go through the finish pretty quickly without harming the veneer. Just stop frequently and check to see if you're at wood yet.
You could also use a detail sander, if you've got one. They are much less aggressive than orbitals.
Nothing wrong with getting a little personal and going at it by hand too, hehe.
Based on what Gulfstar and MJ said, I’m not sure I’d try to refinish just the one spot. You could, but the worst-case scenario is that it doesn't blend well and you end up taking the whole top down to bare wood anyway.
You could try a chemical strip method, too. I’ve never done it myself — not sure why it just sounds like a bad idea to me. Just feels like there’s more room for something to go wrong. Maybe someone else here has experience with that approach.
Just make sure you're using PPE and in a ventilated area if you go that way. 3M makes a half mask with VOC cartridges.
I initially suggested testing the finish to match it, but honestly, I don’t see why you’d have to use the same type again.
You only posted two pictures, so it's hard to say for sure — but from what I can see, I’d personally carefully sand and refinish the whole top surface and be done with it.
Thanks for all that good stuff. I know it is a veneer but not how thick. Weren't all G Plan's 60s dining tables made with a veneer? It's certainly not solid teak all the way through (I wish!).
I've attached a photo of how lovely it looks as a whole, with the middle extension in place. That was before the unfortunate staining then rubbing… I just assumed that it was the factory finish and that the table had been very well looked after, but it seems likely now that it has been stripped and refinished with an inferior product as the original was designed to withstand even hot plates! This is a quote from a 1966 G Plan catalogue:
"G Plan have experimented with lots of different finishes for dining tables . They were looking for a finish that would resist hard treatment and would stand up to spills and to hot dishes put down directly on the surface . After exhaustive tests they have settled for a 2-shot polyurethane . It stands up to almost anything !"
Indeed. Not the finish my table has! In my second attachment there are instructions on care and dealing with minor stains that I wish I had known about...
A search for 2-shot polyurethane hasn't turned up anything yet. Anyone got a very old tin of the stuff??
That's what I thought.
Probably a good idea not to use a Power sander if you are not experienced. A light hand sanding with a block, always use a block, with 150 grit then vacuum clean and apply Danish oil, several coats and its back to original.
Sadly my detailed reply has been lost… ho hum… so I'll rewrite it, I guess...
Oh well, that worked. If I can recall, yes it is veneer but I don't know how thick. Thanks Gulfstar for your suggestions… Danish oil seems to be the thing, but here's some interesting stuff from G Plan in 1966… a quote from a catalogue of that time:
” G Plan have experimented with lots of different finishes for dining tables . They were looking for a finish that would resist hard treatment and would stand up to spills and to hot dishes put down directly on the surface . After exhaustive tests they have settled for a 2-shot polyurethane . It stands up to almost anything ! ”
Anyone got any 2-shot polyurethane?? Can't find it in a search, which probably isn't surprising. I've attached a photo of the full table with extension as it was when I received it a month ago (do I really want to strip all that?) and a leaflet from G Plan giving care advice, which I really wish I'd known about a few days ago!
Actually, there seems to be an issue with uploading so let me try to send this reply first...
There may be a problem with my lengthy reply… let me try sending this...
If I can recall, yes it is veneer but I don't know how thick. Thanks Gulfstar for your suggestions… Danish oil seems to be the thing, but here's some interesting stuff from G Plan in 1966… a quote from a catalogue of that time:
” G Plan have experimented with lots of different finishes for dining tables . They were looking for a finish that would resist hard treatment and would stand up to spills and to hot dishes put down directly on the surface . After exhaustive tests they have settled for a 2-shot polyurethane . It stands up to almost anything ! ”
Anyone got any 2-shot polyurethane?? Can't find it in a search, which probably isn't surprising. I've attached a photo of the full table with extension as it was when I received it a month ago (do I really want to strip all that?) and a leaflet from G Plan giving care advice, which I really wish I'd known about a few days ago!
I'll attach the two photos here if I can...
I freakin love how it specifically says NOT A KITCHEN SCOURER.
That is some comedy gold in this scenario.
Im dying.
You really screwed the pooch going for the panic scrubbing.
So is this the original finish? because G plans "2 shot poly" is a two part poly. resin and hardener.
The finish was developed and used because it wouldnt heat blush. but it did...
It was a very thin finish too apparently.
I think your gonna need to refinish the whole top if you wanna do it right.
A hardwax oil , any oil i guess will give the same natural wood feel retention. thinned out poly. thinned out anything really i guess.
I wouldnt suggest you messing with thining out or spraying anything.
Like gulfstar has said something easy like danish oil.
I would use rubio monocoat or some other hardwax oil.
Its a nice looking table btw.
An old fave...
Yeah, quite funny really…. too bad I didn't have that leaflet to hand, but even so, how could I have dealt with the stain…? Oh yes, they do suggest fine grade wire wool, ho hum…
So it may or may not be the original finish and the original finish, as you suggest, may not have achieved their desired aims… but anyway, it's not available anymore so either hard wax oil or Danish oil might be the way if I ever get round to it. Meanwhile a place mat covers it!
I can try a few things first and see if I can live with it before making a larger project of it. Is there a recommended stripper? If I use a stripper does the finish have to be scraped off with a special tool as I've seen on a video elsewhere? I guess it would then have to be neutralised… unless I just take the finish off with sandpaper...
Btw, I have read that the 1960s G Plan veneers were much thicker than today's veneers, but I haven't found how thick - 3mm perhaps compared with 0.6mm?
Probably around 0.6 mm, if I had to guess. That seems to have been the standard during that time period. I imagine they made veneers as thin as possible, especially when using exotic hardwoods.
GP was mass-produced, quality furniture that was still affordable — not custom, top-tier stuff with thick, shop-cut veneers (like your 3 mm or 1/8" “freedom units”).
Now that I realize how thin the veneer is... definitely skip power sanders. This is a hand-sanding job as others pointed out.
If you want to go the chemical route, some kind of paint/epoxy stripper should work for poly. That said, I’d be concerned about moisture (joints..). The original finish is really thin — assuming it’s G Plan’s factory 2-part poly (which it probably is, especially if you’ve got the original care card).
If i went that route i wouldnt leave any chemical stripper sitting unattended — I’d be nervously babysitting it the whole time. Maybe there’s a milder chemical that still works on poly that you can find.
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