I recently got a piece of Walnut that I would like to cut into veneer, and I would like some advice as to the best way to cut it up, sticker it or not, how thick… basically all the info I can get would help. The piece is sort of triangle shaped (6 inches across on one end, then gradually expanding to 14 inches, then rounding off quickly after that) and about 20 inches across. I made one sheet so far (about 1/8″ thick), and it is curling up a little bit across the width, so I stickered it on both ends, and laid the handle of my hammer across the center to flatten the bow. Good idea? Bad idea?
Let me know =)
Replies
J,
How did you slice the 1/8" sheet off the burl? !/8" is at the upper end of the thickness range for use as a veneer. At that thickness and above the veneer acts as "lumber" with all the expansion and contraction of wood. Thinner veneer "behaves" better adhered to its substrate.
It is doubtful that a commercial service will handle a piece that small to achieve thinner slices. Mounting the piece on a sacrificial sled, you should be able to cut thinner slices on a band saw large enough to hold the piece.
The veneer sheets you obtain are going to want to curl as they contain strongly changing direction of fibers and stresses. You'll need to keep them weighted to achieve some degree of flatness and they will fight you as you apply glue and go about adhering them to a substrate. But you should end up with beautiful results typical of the potential in burl grain patterns.
Rich
I usually cut veneer a little under 1/8" because I want a lot of wood to work with when planing and sanding it after it has been applied to a substrate. If you are going to use a vacuum press to glue the veneer then I wouldn't worry about keeping the veneer flat. The vacuum will flatten it just fine. That is probably true of any other way of attaching the veneer too.
Can you explain the "vacuum" process? I have heard of it, but know nothing about it.
To glue veneer, or anything, the pieces need to be clamped together while the glue dries. The vacuum press process consists of applying glue to a substrate, putting the veneer over that and putting both into a vinyl bag which then has the air pumped out. The result is the weight of the atmosphere, 14.7 lbs/sq. inch, pressing the veneer to the substrate while the glue dries. This eliminates the need for cauls, clamps, etc. The vacuum bag will conform to the shape of the piece. The vacuum bag can be quite large or small. The pump can be elictrical or for small pieces, a simple hand pump.That is the basic principle. If you want, I can describe in greater detail specific veneering projects I typically do.
Sounds like a pretty brave project. I agree with Rich that 1/8" is the limit for a veneer, but I dont think you will have much luck making veneer stock out of a burl with a home style bandsaw at this thickness. Veneer mills soften the stock before cutting and have razor sharp blades that we simply cannot mimick in our shops. If you have enough, you might want to oversize to avoid the problems you are seeing now. Once you have applied to a substrate then you can remove a bit with a hand plane or find someone with a widebelt sander equipped with a platten. I know it sounds wasteful, but in the end it may save you from throwing all of it away.
I am not sure if you intend to use a vac press, but if so, be careful how thick you go. I have tried 1/4" stock before and if the stock is not totally perfect (thickness wise) you can get bond problems. The 15psi generated by a vac press is not sufficient to make up for short comings in the stock.
Good luck
The easiest way to do it would be to resaw it on a bandsaw. Like others have said 1/8" is a little thick I usually resaw to 3/32" and then run it through a drum sander and I end up with a heavy 1/16" thickness. How dry is the material, if it is kiln dried you can just put it on a flat surface with a piece of plywood and some weight on it to keep it flat. If it needs to acclimate or is not dry sticker it and weight it I would put stickers every 8" or so and make sure it is not warping. Sawn veneer will dry pretty fast in a heated space since it is so thin. I personally would avoid sending it through a planer, this works well for straight grained veneers but I think the risk of blowing apart a crotch veneer is pretty good.
Here is a piece I made of california crotch walnut. It is pretty stunning stuff and well worth the effort.
Sorry about the double picture post hit the button twice.
Thomas S Stockton
Thomas,That is simply gorgeous wood and work.Rich
I am sawing it from a fairly green piece of wood, and the first slice of veneer I made is all warped up now, I think if I try to bend it back straight, it will be a tedious job. How should I store the pieces I cut, seeing that they are green?
David Marks had an episode of Woodworks that showed how veneer that was warped and then treated with a flattening solution was stacked up to dry out. He used plastic window screen next to each side of the veneer with sheets of blank newsprint on the side away from screen. This is stacked and weighted down with a platen and weight to dry. The stack was unstacked and the paper replaced with fresh every day until the veneer dried out. The screen allows the moisture to escape and the paper is used to hold the moisture. The top platen and weight keeps it flat until it dries. It takes a while but you end up with flat veneer. Many sheets of veneer can be in one stack, just put the screen and paper between each veneer sheet. I would think any plain uncoated paper would work as well as unprinted newsprint.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Flattening solution like that is really only usable on commercial veneer not sawn veneer since it is too thick. I would put the piece on a flat surface with a piece of wood on the top and slowly weight it down until it is flat.
In general your best off using dry wood to make sawn veneers out of, green wood will tend to move and crack more once it is cut. That said if you continue what I would do is keep slicing it at 1/8" and then stack and sticker it in an out of the way place for a while and see what happens. Make sure you weight the top so that the veneers stay flat.
Thomas S Stockton
The suggestion was to how to dry home sawn veneer, not to use flattening solution. Natural moisture content or flattening solution moisture, the idea is to keep the veneer in a flat state and allow the moisture to be removed. I can't imagine stickering a piece of 1/8" veneer in the fashion of stickering a board. The veneer is too thin to place between conventional stickers so the screen/paper combination with a caul and weight would work to keep it flat as it was drying. Sorry I did not make myself clear the first time.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
I actually do it regularly I use 3/8" square stickers and place them 4 to 6" apart works really well thats how I acclimated the crotch in the piece I posted earlier. I would worry that a screen would not have enough air movement to dry the pieces. When this is done with commercial veneers that have been flattened your just removing the free water or water that is not bound up in the cell structure of the wood which is the moisture that takes the most time to remove.
I think the best bet is to dry the crotch whole and cut it up dry, let it acclimate on stickers for as long as you want and then stack it with nothing between it and some weight on the top.
Thomas S Stockton
Just me so take it with a grain of salt.. With me maybe a few pounds of salt...
Been there. Soak it in water and put it on a HOT slab of a flat part of the driveway with a board over it with ALOT bricks on top.. Let it cook for awhile.. Turn it over and do the same thing.. Different HOT spot... Several hours.. Bring it inside and look the next morning...
I once posted about a child's rocker I made out of oak.. I steamed a bent part with one of those machines for steaming drapes... Everybody posted it will NOT work that I recall. The chair still looks 'normal' a year after!
NOT saying they were wrong! But... I made it in winter and my grandbaby rocks it in summer!
Edited 11/5/2008 11:07 am by WillGeorge
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