I am trying to find out how they cut the large angled holes you find in a Champagne pupitre/Riddling Rack. It’s the depth that gets me: not only does it go through about 1inch of face timber, but it also goes through the bottom edge of a thicker (aprox2 inches) supporting bar that sits behind the face timber.
Any one done this or any ideas welcomed
Nick
Replies
S,
I'm not familiar with the terms you use but I can tell you that large (round) holes are often made with a large diameter auger bit having a leading, threaded point to pull the auger through the work as it is turned.
To get the necessary turning force, the auger is long and has a metal loop at the top end. The loop has a long wooden handle passed through it so that the user can exert that large turning force.
Such augers are used in greenwood chairmaking where there is no power in the woods and the spindle holes might go up to an inch in diameter or more.
If the auger is screwed into the workpiece at an angle (guided by one or two sliding gauges) then the resultant hole will be elliptical....
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Lataxe
Thanks for this. I am familular with these augers but I don't think they are going to be big enough.
I have tried to attach a picture of what I am trying to achieve
N
Nick,
Looks like that would be a piece of cake for a large forstner bit on a drill press with a tilted table.
GeorgeYou don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard<!----><!----><!---->
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Thanks I'll see if I can find one with a long enough shank
N
S,
You could consider one of these for use with an ordinary Forstner or sawtooth bit:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/pricing/INC/cid/HXQSU4UK3H4E8U9T5C0SESMNETDW28J5/product-Axminster-Sawtooth-Cutter-Shank-Extension-23390.htm
Axminster Tools is British but there must be an American seller of such a tool?
Lataxe
You're not going to tell us that the holes are tapered in addition to angled are ye? That would make things interesting.
If that's the case on the same page a bit down is something interesting - Taper Reamers, used for tapering leg sockets.
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Maybe? The OP was concerned about the depth though. Sounds like it's 3" or so of actual wood depth but what I can't tell from the pics is if that sits directly behind the face or whether there's a space between them which might explain why he's worried about the depth. A view from the side might help.If you build it he will come.
"You're not going to tell us that the holes are tapered in addition to angled are ye?"A router and template would be the solution here.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com) - Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Edited 2/22/2009 12:31 pm by flairwoodworks
Looks to me like the answer to the question, "how do they do this?" is one thing, while the answer to another question, "how can I do this?" is likely very different.
I'd say that "they" probably have an industrial solution. I.e., when you're doing ten-thousand of those, it pays to have a special bit and machine set-up to do the job. However, if you are trying to replicate that rack as a one time deal for your wine cellar, the cost to do it that way would be exorbitant.
If I were going to tackle a single rack like that, I would bore the holes in the front pieces using a sharp hole saw in a drill press with a tilted table. Then I would assemble the rack and, using the holes in the front as a guide, bore the holes in the cross members with the same hole saw in a hand drill. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
"I am familar with these augers but I don't think they are going to be big enough."What do you mean? Exactly how big are those holes? How big is the bottle in the picture? I think I have augers that cut 3" diameter holes. The holes in my German bench are 2" in diameter and 18" deep thru solid beech. I have center bits that cut 2-1/2", though I woudln't necessarily recommend one for this job.Adam
How about providing him with a source for said 3" auger?
Why mention a 2 1/2" bit that you don't think would work?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Funny you should mention, I think the OP's in the UK. I bought my set of ship augers From Tony Murland in England. I would try old tool dealers or antique shops. "Barn" augers make popular decorations, though I admit, like glue pots they are ubiquitous until you need one.Fair question about the center bit; I was only trying to point out that large bits exist, are fairly common on the second hand market, and can be effective in certain circumstances. I have an electric drill motor and I bought a cheap set of forstner bits (maybe $40-50 for a large set) and I find they don't work well at all. Don't know if this is par for the forstner course or not. They cut slow as molasses, burn if you get impatient. I bought them to cut plywood in my kitchen, but for solid wood, I can cut similar holes by hand quicker. I even tried sharpening them with saw files, not sure what is wrong with them. I should be able to fix them. They aren't really that much different in design to center bits. The big difference seems to be that they don't work as well. But I can't get my brace under my kitchen sink so... (yes I have an angle brace)Adam
Edited 2/22/2009 10:07 pm ET by AdamCherubini
The reference to "barn auger" may be the best lead on this thread yet. A quick google search looked promising.
You have redeemed yourself sir.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
"You have redeemed yourself sir."Whew! KNOTS is one tough crowd! :)Adam
For a good quality inexpensive forstner bit set you might try the Porter Cable Hickory Woodworking FBS1016 16 Piece Forstner Bit Set 3/8" Shank.
I own them myself and am very happy with them. I sold hundreds of sets and never had a complaint nor a problem. They cut quickly and cleanly and hold up very well.
They used to be Oldham who marketed them as Hickory.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Looks like the OP fell through one of those holes and didn't come out!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Not exactly constructive hey!
Just kidding, Simplywood. Hope you are successful with this task.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have a old adjustable Bit that could do it but I am really unsure of why you want a long bit for three inches of stock? Am I missing something?
Edited 2/22/2009 4:54 am by WillGeorge
I'm just guessing that they didn't drill those with the supporting piece behind it attached. The trick would be to clamp it behind the visible one with the holes through it and transfer the holes/centerpoint mark through them to drill the backing piece at the same angle. If the hole size worked out to be something convenient like a common PVC pipe diameter, you could cut an angled end on PVC and slip it through the hole to trace the circle then find the center point with a compass, You might also be able to do this with a router mounted on an angled base with a circle cutout and use a bearing guided bit.
If you build it he will come.
Couldn't you also use a longer board for the back, drill through both boards at the same time then adjust the back board to match the holes and cut off the excess?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hey Nick. I will assume that you have or can find the bit that you choose to use.
The trick that I would use, is to drill a hole through a thick board. Then cut away the back of the board at the slant that you choose for the angle. Then clamp it to the work, or another template board, and use it go guide the bit from the outside of the cutter, rather than the spur or pilot drill.
You may make one block to make a line of holes in a 2 x 6, which will make a whole line of holes down the final piece.
If you use a hole saw, they are mostly made with far too many teeth, with too much hook angle, and not enough gullet to drill wood very well. What I do whenever I buy a new one, is to go to my grinder with a 1/4" wheel, then grind two of every three teeth off, while deepening the gullet, and reducing the hook to 0º, then changing the side bevel to about 15º. This eliminates that quick grab when the teeth touch, and allows for a deeper penetration before the gullets are full, as well as the splintering. It still leaves the blade with alternating bevel teeth.
You might even consider dropping the hook back to negative 20º if the splintering is bad on the back side, if it is PW. Basically what I am saying, it to change the tooth configuration to that of a cross-cut handsaw, with a really large gullet.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks for this. I have had lots of input on this one and I need to go away and do some testing to see which one I can make work best
N
Simplywood:
I think if you check with Ray or Lataxe you will find that this is very old technology and is the result of years of research by both the Brits and the Yankees in the early days of our republic. These holes are actually drilled straight through the wood and then the lumber is placed in a fault line in California where massive pressure is aplied each time the earth moves thus pulling in oposite directions on each side of the planks causing the holes to become angled. Patience is the only tool required!
Or maybe they were made by Ray and Lataxe shootin words at each other in the next thread over!
Think I'd go with the Forstner bit and an angled drill press table.
Madison
Thanks
Next time I suggest you burn your off cuts, rather than smoke them!
N
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