Contrary to what I have read about them crosscut sleds are not simple or easy to make. I have a whole pile of them that i have made and none of them work like everyone claims they are supposed to. Its almost impossible to get the rails to slide in the mitre slot unless you make them narrow enough that they have some slop in them and when you introduce slop they are no longer accurate. even tried with one rail on the bottom that doesn’t work either as its not accurate. wondering if a store bought one is any better?
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Replies
Have you tried slotting the hole that you use to screw the rail to the sled? If you do that in a countersunk hole with a flat head screw, you will be able to adjust the fit of the rail in the slot to the perfect fit.
Brent
I've only made one, and its a big monster but works great. I used UMWH or whatever its called, you know the white plasticy stuff for the miter slot runners. Got them tight but loose enough to slide nicely, then slothered some fast epoxy glue on them (or hot melt will work, too), and then when dry, I screwed the rascals in place.
Actually fairly brainless I thought. But maybe I got lucky.
baddraw,
When you get an answer let me know.... I have made acouple and this last one isn't too bad, but not "dead on". Did you have any rails made from the machine shop and then wax them good..everytime.
Anywho I also am interested in the secret, or do I have to..buy one.
Bill D.
Your problem is common. Precision fits with wood just don't hold over time.One workaround is to fasten the slightly loose runners so the sled is square when they are pushed against one side of the miter slots. Shims will hold them in place while you assemble the sled. It's an easy habit to develop to use hand positions that register the sled against that side of the slot when feeding the sled across the saw.
I don't buy the "super sled" theory.I make them out of scrap, and consider them disposable.I don't use "one jig for everything", I find that smaller, lighter, easier to build dedicated jigs do a far better job, and that applies to sleds.
There was a very long thread a few months ago spurred I think by the recent FWW article in which a fellow built a rather long sled using MDF. I followed to the letter his instructions that called for a soft steel runner, and it worked perfectly. Prior to that I had built some with oak runners and UHMW runners and some sanding/scraping was needed to get them to work, but there wasn't much play. Bear in mind that with both, I screwed through the runner into the bottom of the sled, and if I drove the screws home too much they expanded both runners, causing binding.
Don't know what the problem is you're having, sleds are easy for me to make.I make them as jigs, and I keep runner material around.I use the thickness planner to bring them to the right width, then when I need another sled, I rip off a new runner.I set the runners in the slots, then use the side of the table to align the fence.Glue & screw, a new sled for Yet Another Jig takes about twenty minutes. I usually use scrap.Good luck!
If you haven't already watched them, those videos on the construction of a "Super Sled" are very good and might give you some ideas:
http://eaglelakewoodworking.com/post/Super-Sled-Crosscut-and-Miter-Sled.aspx.
Excellant video, I can see I have a problem making such a sled with tools I have at my disposal. My little workshop consists of a dewalt 746 tablesaw, a crasftsman ras, a craftsman scrollsaw and a ryobi belt sander. Accuracy is gonna be a problem in any attempt to build something like that, no clue as to how to make the slots. I would love to have something like he builds in the videos and the uhmw strips may be what I need to go with. Thanks for the link, maybe at some point in the future i can have a drill press and router/table combo in my little shop.
I just made one yesterday. I started with quartersawn oak runners sized to fit the miter slots and screwed the to the base of the sled while in the slots (slide the sled half-off the table and put in the screw). The fit was too tight, but it did fit in the slots. So I pushed it forwards and backwards a few times and that created black marks on the runners. I used a plane to remove the black spots and slid it fore and aft again, repeating until I got the perfect fit.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hmm blacks marks rang a bell, mine fit the slots it just doesn't move back and forth smoothly. I read an article about screws causing binding so i used the pennies in slot and glue trick with weight on top while glue sets up. while messing around trying to figure out why it binds i did notice telltale black marks so i sanded but to no avail. unfortunately it got the best of me and i tried to force it through the slots and succeeded in destroying it, so back to square one. unlike yall i have a limited budget and tools so it gets a little tough getting material that is true and square. i wish i had a planer and a jointer it sure would make things a little easier.
I used to (and still do sometimes for small stock) completely surface stock. That is rip a straight edge, then a parallel edge, then one face at 90, then the other parallel. Just be careful and use push blocks when doing this. The jointer is really helpful for larger stock, but for rails for a sled, you could use a tablesaw.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
lol, I should have been more specific about the slots. I meant the slots for t-bolts in the super sled used for adjustability and other attachments?
You mentioned UHMW strips and I recommend them highly. I've used them for several years making sleds/jigs and they work quite well. If you do end up using them I recommed that you countersink the screw holes so it minimizes expansion when attaching them.
For the rear fence (closest to you) I've had great success using a secondary fence that will allow adjustability for a primary fence. More work initially but saves a lot of head scratching down the road. Also you don't have to be anal about its placement as you have the ability to adjust out any sloppiness.
On the issue of guidestrips under the sled they don't necessarily have to fit the miter slots exactly but must be positioned such that the sled doesn't wabble in the slots.
A while back I made a smaller version of the Ultimate Crosscut Sled and another Knotizen and I posted our versions in The Woodworking Life so you might want to have a look-see there for some ideas. It's a single runner sled (think of it as a poor mans slider) is how I see it. It's the sled I use all the time now.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I don't follow. Was this post meant to be addressed to myself or Larry?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I've made a number of them and they work true every time.
Try this:
Make the runners from hardwood stock (maple, cherry) that's stabilized and straight grain.
Start with a board length equal to the depth of the sled capacity you want plus 1.5 to 2X longer for the runners to extend on both sides of the sled.
Thickness the board through a planer until it just slides in your table saw's slots. Rip two runners to a thickness about .030 less than the depth of the slot in the saw's top.
Shim the runners such that they are slightly proud of the top (.010-.020).
Check that the slots are perpendicular to the tables edge. Run a small bead of glue on top of the runners and put the plywood sled on top, lining the edge of the sled with the edge of the saw table. Nail brads through the panel along the centerline of the runners and let dry.
When dry, make the front and back supports and glue and screw them to the sled (make sure you countersink the holes). Also make these piece fairly tall so that the sled retains its rigidity once you run a kerf through it.
I also put paste wax on the runner sides to make it move smoothly on the table
Art
Plane the board
"Run a small bead of glue on top of the runners and put the plywood sled on top, lining the edge of the sled with the edge of the saw table. Nail brads through the panel along the centerline of the runners and let dry"Art,Now that's a better way! Thanks for sharing. I suppose double-stick tape would work too.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
When using my sled with 2 runners I need to push the sled close to the center between the 2 runners. Pushing from 1 end causes it to be a bit a bit grabby. talc powder in the runners helps to.
For my busiest sled, I use Incra Miter Sliders, adustable aluminium runners. Their precision is great. http://amzn.com/B000I6QVF4John
I also use Incra Miter Sliders on my crosscut sled. I don't have much trouble getting the sled attached to runners, but I do have trouble making sure that the fence is square to the blade. I know I must be doing something wrong, but I always see people gluing the fence to the sled. If I did that, I would have a permanently off sled. How do you make sure that the rear fence is actually square to the blade? I have seen the videos & know the theory, but can't seem to apply it.
e,
if one makes the fence tunable/adjustable ,out of square is solved. it is easy to do so. i make my fences from flat, straight, dry 2x6's. the right end is bolted with machine bolt, nut and washer. the left side of the fence gets a large u-shaped notch cut into it. another machine bolt is inserted through a hole in the sled, threads up, through the u-shaped notch, through a washer (yes, a big washer or you can make your own). a good wing-nut is used to tighten it up. i do not know about anyone else, but the pursuit of SQUARE is common to all my projects and keeping tools square is best facilitated by making adjustable jigs. i would never glue the fence in place.
eef
Edited 12/7/2009 3:14 pm ET by Eef
I'm just the opposite.With a table the size of a table saw, square is easy.Set the edge of the fence to the edge of the table, done.I just finished a new bench top, and I cut the dog holes with the dado set at two degrees.With a new sled, whipped up just for the dog hole strips, cutting something at two degrees is easy-- a little trig, and at the length of the sled, the offset was an inch and 7/8".It's a lot easier to get a measurement that's almost two inches dead on than it is to try to measure two degrees...The size of the table and the length of the jig magnify tiny measurements.So I glue 'em up, use 'em up, and throw 'em away.Besides, for my money (and time) a small, fast, solid sled is much easier, faster and simpler than trying to design adjustments for making tiny movements into a large, permanent behemoth.Slap it together, measure it tight, if it doesn't come out perfect, pitch it, start over and get it right. :)
jam,
"...pitch it, start over, get it right..."or make it adjustable.
eef
I've squared fences by:1. Attach the sled runner so part of the sled (~1/2") extends over the blade.2. Run the sled thru the saw cutting the excess sled material (and creating an edge that perfectly matches the blade).3. Use the 3-4-5 (or 6-8-10 if you prefer) triangle costruction method to find the line that's perpendicular to your freshly cut edge.
Another way to prove crosscut sleds is the cut & flip method.Wouldn't count on any sled that couldn't prove itself.You guys are right, the edge of the table only works if the blade runout is set up right.I guess I assumed that, on a cabinet saw, it's very easy to set, and once the saw is set, the sleds all prove out.
Now that I think about it, it seems to me that JET recommends setting up their saws with three or four thousandths runnout; that setup has always given me crosscut sleds that prove out.
Clarence,
I havent' used them, but Micro Jig makes miter sliders now.
http://www.microjig.com/products/zeroplay-guide-bar/index.shtml
I'm with the group here who has had only temporary and minimal success with cross-cut sled endeavors.
--jonnieboy
The first thing that comes to mind is,
I've buily a few sleds over the years, the first thing I do is to verify that my square is in square.
Just a thought,
Taigert
Good posts and advice re your experience.
A couple of things to emphasize
1) make your fences adjustable - wood moves, sleds get dropped, the fence decides to bow and glue be darned, etc. I have experienced all of the above over time.
2) The advice to align the back or front of the sled to the rear edge of the table only works if a) the rear of the table was actually machined at an exact 90 degrees to the cross cut guide slots (this is not a given), and b) if you have also recently aligned your blade to be exactly parallel those slots (which you should do, regardless).
Something that has helped me to make a serviceable sled is to - FIRST align the blade to be parallel to the cross cut guide slots, - then make the completed sled with the front installed but without the back, - then make my first cut almost the length of the sled but stop 2" before I've cut it in half, then attach my adjustable back piece with a pivot bolt on one half and a lock bolt in a slot on the other half. Set the back with my carpenter's square which, in spite of maniacal care, won't be perfectly square. Make a test cut - adjust & test cut, adjust & test cut, adjust & test cut - done.
P.S. I know lots of guys that successfully use a much simpler sled with only one fairly loose runner glued and tacked in place , they make the platform 1" too wide and cut to fit with the first cut. They use no back piece and mount a front cross piece held by one long drywall screw as a pivot and then tacked into place - no glue (i.e., adjustable).
To use, align your piece with the front cross member and your cut with the cut off edge of the sled, and Always press the sled to the the same side that you pressed when you finished your sled - this press very adequately corrects for the loose runner, and it never sticks.
How's THAT for more about elephants than you ever wanted to know :)
Enjoy,
Mike D
PS - If you want to make yourself crazy, try testing your sled, once adjusted, by cutting a 1 foot rectangle sequentially around all 4 sides ( yes, make four cuts) , making sure that you place each most recent cut against the back piece as you go (rotate the piece clockwise from cut to cut if you are cutting from the right side of the blade). If your 4th cut comes out perfectly parallel with the original back edge, then you are even MORE compulsive with your measurements than I am, or, you've just witnessed a miracle. Don't ever do this but once - it's WOOD that we're working with, after all, and such crazed precision does not add to the beauty or utility of the finished piece.
Hey buddy ,
i used two piece of starboard cut to fit and run perfectly in the slot under some MDF.You first set your fence in a perfect squared positioned, drop the starboard strips in the slot , placed the MDF on top and stick a few brads into them, you then remove the whole works and secured with some screws...
good luck.
I dare to respond given the experience of those before me.
I made the cross cut sled by Gary Ragowski which can be found somewhere on this site and it worked perfect until the wood runners become worn and needed to be replaced. I think the secret was to install the runners first and then square the sled to the fence/blade. This is done by attaching the rear supoort with bolts which allows adjustment if required. It probably cost me less than $5 because it was all scrap wood but I had to buy bolts. I put away my miter saw and the table saw is all I use.
I found with time, patience and the help of many on this website most jigs and accessories can be shop built for pennies. To name a few - cross cut sled, box joint jig, tenoning jig, router station, etc
Just a "humble newbie's experience"
good luck
I consider myself fairly accomplished in this art and I will admit, my first and only experience making a sled was very unsatisfactory. I come from a metal machining background so I typically use a micrometer in my work.
Anyway, like you, my sled was less than perfect. I worked for what I was doing but I had to tinker with the thing a lot. So, I have been thinking about making one out of aluminum sheet. Basically, purchasing prefabbed runners and then aluminum sheet from McMaster Carr along with other aluminum parts for front and back fences. With aluminum, time, ans patience, I think I can make a sled that actually slides well and is accurate. And most importantly, doesn't change from day to day (I never get all my work done in one day.....too busy checking and rechecking my micrometer).
I wonder if perhaps I just have a different standard of what is good in a sled (good meaning acceptable, accurate, nice,.... et al).
Rob Kress
The other thing I do that creates sleds quickly and simply is that the runners are a hair undersized. One is tight to one side, the other is tight to the other.It's the sled that's tight, not the runners.Simple is easy, easy is fast, fast is cheap, cheap is disposable.
My solution is similar to Brent's. I drill a small hole in the side of each runner, two holes in each runner, and screw in an Allan Screw. Then adjust the Allan screw so the runners are snug.
I have a whole pile of them that I have made and none of them work like everyone claims they are supposed to...
I have a few of different sizes for various tasks. My favorite (large) bolts to my after market slider so the TS slots are not a big issue.
I use MDF (edges sealed) for the table and all but one sled uses quarter sawn white oak for the runners. The other uses Incra adjustable runners.
My shop is not heated or air conditioned so I live day to day with small/large changes with the wood I am working with but I can truthfully say that my sleds give me the least grief.
I have a small hord of QS oak runners fitted for future replacements but I have never had to use them. I'd think the fancy new expensive plastics may be the best to use but I have never found it necessary to change from my old oak runners.
My TS is a 'so called' junk saw. A Big Box Ridgid that works for what I need. I expect ALOT from it #within reason#.
When making my first sled for this saw I found that the left and right miter gauge #inverted T# slots were almost in perfect alignment to each other. Nice milling job I'd say but a bit 'rough' on the edges where the wood runners would have to follow.
As another poster in here said.. In my words, not his, but the same idea in different words used.
I just cut some scrap hardwood that I thought fit the slots and marked at 1/4 inch increments from the Oak that I will use for the final outcome. I fitted the best I could and then run the 'sticks' #by hand# up and down the slots and looked for the 'black' spots. I slowly pushed the 'stick' down the slot until I felt some resistance. At the reference mark, I used a small oil stone to polish off that area on the side of that cast iron. I used a old gum pencil eraser to remove what I could of the black marks along both edges and try again. Find a new point for resistance.. And then, again and again..... Tedious work but still fun to do if you are not in a hurry!
It did NOT take long to do. Old metal worker here and I could have just used a mill on the slots but my son-in-law got my mill! I have some die scrapers but that would have been cheating for woodwork?
My long winded way of saying make your sliding table and hone the table saw guides to fit it. Then you will have a issue with your original miter gauge.
YES! A slider table is not perfect.. Nor is it's operator or the wood..
My runners stay OK BUT I do have have the back fence adjustable if needed.
try this one out. Virtually goof proof
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