“What properties or features should I look for in a smooth plane?”
Larry,
I’ll start; what is a heat sink as it pertains to a smooth plane ?
How important is hammer refining of tool steel ?
What, in your view and other peoples view, is the main topics when choosing a smooth plane.
AND
I would like to hear your views comparing planes in general but jointers in particular. The reason is I use my iron jointers LN BD 7 and LV low angle, have accuracy issues and resort to the finish plane to correct these.
I prep by planing until winding sticks show no wind ( using scrub, jack etc ) then using jointers to plane middle hollow so the the perimeter is a tweak high planing cross and diagonal then start to refine it down the length still using the jointers; what Chris Schwartz calls Medium.
I find I begin to loose control of the surface toward the Smooth period of work and the ends get low.
The same thing happens while jointing edges. Plane until ends are high or every thing is straight. Near perfect. Then while just making a bit flatter and more square using the jointers I loose the ends and the middle comes up. If I use a finish plane and the Starrett straight edge I do make it “perfect”. If I continue to use a jointer the ends drop or the surface twists a tweak.
It is enough for me to say “why am I bothering to use this big A$$ plane when I can do it with the lighter planes”. I am going to use the straight edge anyway.
I know you are going to say poor technique. In my estimation I am very aware of picking up on the tote at the start and the front knob at the end etc. I tend to use radiused blades to take off more material depth per pass so blade isn’t tilted/misaligned.
My opinion is the soles are not accurate enough on the jointers but every body says big planes for rougher work don’t need to be to a thou.
Interestingly enough the LN 7 always cuts both ends low. The LV LA will cut the first end high. A bit of a bump.
I bring this up I suppose too because I find a finish plane with a medium or adjustable throat to be more useful because I tend to have to do my final dimensioning or accuracy making with the finish plane and want the medium shaving clearance.
It isn’t the blade going dull in the jointers so much because some times to get the high spot back out of the work I resort back to my LA jack with the thoroughly used medium dull blade.
That is a lot of rambling but In my mind it is all related; smooth plane with a medium throat and does the big old heavy iron jointers, you mentioned, have any real place ?
Can I expect more from a wooden jointer ?
And as usual this is all in very hard wood. Can’t get much depth even with a scrub.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 2/26/2009 3:16 pm by roc
Replies
Oh my, what a can of worms. I knew I'd regret that post and let it sit overnight while I mulled over posting it.
A heat sink?? Well, I think maybe Lie-Nielsen is on to something with their "improved" cap iron. Maybe Gary Blum as well. We know that a significant portion of dulling results from heat. Can Lie-Nielsen's cap iron act as a heat sink to draw heat from the iron? Maybe Gary Blum's new plane design can be adapted to work as a heat sink to draw heat from the iron? What gives me pause here is that the bevel up planes should be very good at this and they seem to suffer from more wear to the back of the edge where their configuration should make their bodies and beds more effective as heat sinks.
I have no idea how important hammer refining of steel is. I know it's mentioned in older steel literature. Roc, you're the one who brought up the thaumaturgic properties of Japanese steels. As far as I can tell, it's pretty much the same as our water and oil hardening tool steels. Blue steel has a little more tungsten added. They don't temper their steel as much as Western tool makers so it's harder and more brittle but they work mostly soft woods and can get away with that. If there's any advantage to the Japanese steel, it's in the refining nature of their forging and how they may be able to control grain size. I don't know if any of our old blacksmith are still around to ask about hammer refining. We may have to look to Japanese blade smiths to figure it out. My guess is that you'd have to have a pretty good microscope to tell the difference, but I just don't know enough about it. The fans of Japanese tools seem to prefer mystique over facts so I sure don't expect any answers to come from them.
I don't have a clue as to what's going on with your jointers. I'd have to look at the planes and watch you work. I do know that if you're introducing problems with your smooth plane you're removing way too much wood with them. Actually, your "jointers" are more in the traditional range of trying planes when it comes to size. I don't think anyone other than custom makers produce true metal jointers. It's that old weight thing getting in the way. A 28" to 32" metal plane is just too heavy to be of any real use. A smooth plane is all about surface quality. If you need to fix issues with final thickness or flatness you need to be able to do that with your trying plane(s). The length of the plane is what controls flatness which is why you want a longer plane like a fore plane for roughing. A scrub plane is almost guaranteed to impair your ability to get the thickness you want, they're too short and too aggressive. Save your scrub backing out casing or other trim or leveling framing in carpentry. I'd be willing to bet that if Chris could take back anything he's ever written or done in a video that whacking away portion of his DVD on preparing stock wouldn't be seen.
Neither he or Cosman really deal with getting uniform thickness in their DVDs on preparing stock and that's the most important part. Set your jack plane up as a traditional fore plane and use your LN #7 as your trying plane. Get your stock true and uniform with them. Save your smooth plane for only the slightest refining of the surface quality and think of it as introducing flaws in uniform thickness with every pass. The only magic bullet here, Roc, is that the length of the plane you use defines its use. A 14" to 18" fore plane and a try plane of around 24" should get your stock flat and true. These planes are the ones that do the real work. The fore plane removes cup, wind, bowing and warping. The try plane removes the signatures of the fore plane. If necessary the smooth plane fixes small areas of minor imperfections in the surface quality. Start by creating a true reference face and a straight and square reference edge. The reference face is actually most often the back or non-show face of a piece because nearly all your joinery should be laid out from the back. After you have your reference face and edge you can work to thickness and width. This is traditional trade practice and it evolved because it works and it's the most efficient way to prepare your stock.
I don't think a wooden jointer will be your magic bullet. Once you've got your fore and try planes working like they can I doubt you'll find many uses for a jointer unless you're working pretty long stock frequently.
Larry,
Thanks for a most interesting post (and thread). Prior to purchasing one of your DVDs, can you suggest a book, etc. for more background? Something not only concerning types of planes and their use but also detailing proper work holding.
Again, thanks!
T.Z
Tony,None of this stuff is in the DVD. Charles Hayward's out of print books are pretty good and not too expensive.
Appreciate the Hayward suggestion.
T.Z.
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