To all:
As beginning woodworker, it seems that all the discussion and arguments surrounding the methods for protecting yourself from the damage of fine dust particles centers on effectiveness of different dust collectors and air filters. I’m wondering if anyone has ever seen a good discussion of the efficacy of masks? Is it just my cynical nature or do I detect a desire by the tool makers to have us invest in expensive solutions when cheaper ones may suffice?
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Eric from Oakland, CA.
Replies
Not sure I'm "pointing you in the right direction" but we've had a couple of discussions about masks, how well they do or don't work, how well they fit, how much they make the wearer sweat, etc., etc.
I'm sure if I wore my solvent-certified dual cartridge mask while I was working wood (sawing, sanding, routing, and so on) I would not be breathing in any sawdust at all. However, there would be sawdust all over my clothes and in my hair, to follow me into the house, all over the shop, to be stirred up whenever I walk through, essentially all over everywhere.
I don't have a DC or an air filter yet, but I consider them a must-have for the not-so-distant future.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If a mask doesn't bother you than by all means go ahead and use one, and if they made something comfortable that didn't fog up my safety goggles, and get in the way, then i'd be the first one to buy one. but they don't, so the only time i wear a mask is if i'm spraying lacquer.
the other reason for dust collectors is that without them you would be swimming in shavings, which is a safety hazard. plus with a dust collector you spend less time with a broom, and your shop stays cleaner.
Hey bake sale-
The dust mask is definitely a good idea and you should use one when at all possible. I keep several scattered around the shop so I have no excuse for not putting one on. That said- while the dust mask protects your lungs, a real dust collection system protects everything else from the fine layer of dust that will settle EVERYWHERE if not controlled somehow. Take it from someone who's shop sometimes houses a car (my wife's). Dust collection doesn't have to be hugely expensive either. I have one of the lower cost Grizzly machines ducted in to all my equipment which, with blastgates to close off machines not in use, works just fine.
By the way, my dust collection system was one of the few, if not only, woodworking "investments" that my wife encouraged!
Good luck,
Doc in Carlsbad
bake sale
Have to agree with FG. Mask do a wonderful job of keeping dust out of your lungs while you have it own. Do you enter and leave your shop with it on? Fine dust is there. No system or method will remove it all.
A DC system of some type is necessary to keep dust to a minimum. The mask does a great job while you have it own. When I am not running high saw-dust producing machines, I just don't like the in-convenience and restrictions that comes with having it on.
Is there a correct answer here.. Probaly not. You and your body will have to decide what it's willing to tolerate. The alternative is to find a new hobby that doesn't produce all this dust. Yeah, right..grin<>
Evening..
sarge..jt
It's too easy to say to yourself "I only need to cut/sand/rout/plane this one little piece, I don't need to put on that mask that probably doesn't work anyway". I did eventually get an air filter, and was amazed at how quickly the filter turned brown after a few of those "little pieces". I use the shop vac, air filter and the little masks too, now.
For an entry level dust filter I recommend you get a standard 20 inch, square body, houshold cooling fan. they are plentifull at almost all stores and even pawn shops.
Duct tape a 20 inch furnace filter to both intake and outgo sides.
Spray the filter with endust. If you can find a plug in timer for a few bucks stick that between the power and your fan box.
It ain't pretty but it will give you a bit of time to build something more permanent. There is so much to buy when you first start out. i remember it well.
Doing without fine dust collection is false economy.
Regards
Bob
4333,
That is exactly what I did and it has made a big difference. I built a frame around the box fan so I could easily remove and replace the filter. The big Box store had several alternatives for furnace filters, I went with the $7 quality ...I can't tell you why now, but there was a reason. They also have filters with charcoal...smoke an fumes removable. I may set up the filters in tandum ..or put the charcoal filter on a second box fan. Lastly, I hung the box fan upside down from the rafters because the switch was on the top and put it on the same electrical loop as the lights.
All that aside, however, I wear a good mask while sanding.
Hi BG:
If you want to go a step further you can go to a fabric ( sewing) store and pickup some polyester lining material (sizing)and cover your disposable filters with a piece of this stuff.
It really grabs the fine stuff so you probably will want it on the back furnace filter.
The stuff is cheap like kleenex so you can replace it often.
I personally think this system beats the tar out of the more expensive solutions.
First, because it's cheap and second because it;'s easy, I would say 3rd because it's better but, I did not comparision tests other than to spec the filters and CFM of various units.
After I finish working , I don a mask and use a wand and the air compressor to blow off all the fines off every surface in my shop
The fan(dust collector runs continuous so most of the airborne dust gets picked up at night. The dust that gets blown into the corner of the shop is vaccumed up before I leave.
There is essentially no dust in my shop.
4333,
That is a good idea about the fabric, I'll look into it.
I do not have an air compressor but I do vacuum the filters every week. I bought one of those 6.5 horse power vacs last year. I'm not sure about the power on the sucking end...but on the exhaust end it can sure create a cloud quickly...
Sure BG just use the vacuum.
You can slip on a reducer to give yourself a little spot pressure to go into the nooks and crannies. Blow out around any exposed switches or open motor housings and bearing guides etc around the shop.
I will get static from somebody but if dust accumulates in switch it can give you problems or even start a fire.
Better the devil you know.
regards
4 tree tree tree!
BG
I have just a couple of questions because I am planning on using a system similar to yours. First, is your fan suspended directly over your work area or in a central location. Second, my ceiling has drywall attached to the rafters. About how much space should exist between the ceiling and the fan?
Thanks in advance,
trusche2
Trusche2,
I have suspended my fan as close to the ceiling as possible, to one side of the room...so I won't hit my head too frequently. While I don't know the actual CFM, I'm comfortable that it is sufficient to change the air ten times per hour (minimun). Of course, this only removes air borne particulate matter....but it's cheaper than the alternative and, I believe, just effective.
Not my original thinking, but I understood that the best location for a air filter was down low, not at the ceiling - to encourage circulation down where the heavier airborne dust would tend to be. Not true?
" You can be a Filter or buy a Filter"
If nothing else a simple paper face mask helps until you can equip your shop better. I don't have a central dust collection system yet but I use a shop vac on my planer and band saw. I use an old Kirby vac on my Porter Cable orbital sander and I run a window air unit with extra filters taped on the intake. I still use the paper mask when I'm working wood. Some woods are worse than others on your health.
God Bless and Good Luck
les
Another option if you don't like dust is to switch to handtools. One reason i like handplanes so much is that there is no dust created. with handtools there is also a lot less noise, but there will always be a place for powertools in my shop, even if it means living with the dust they make.
A decent shop vac can stand in for a real DC until you get around to one. You might even have one already.
Tom
I sand over a black hole. Call it my "Gravity Well"!
Seriously, I have a 4x8 rolling workbench. In one end I have a hole for my router plate. Under that I have a 12x12x12 box connected to my DC. So, when sanding, I take out the router, turn on the DC and sand over the hole. Tickles me to see a cloud of dust spiriling into the "black hole"!
When I can't move the piece to the hole, I move the DC hose to the piece.
About every two weeks I put on a mask and fire up the gasoline blower to get rid of the residual dust. No matter how hard you try, there ALWAYS will be residual dust.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Check w/ local heating system suppliers. Often they'll sell you an old elec. furnace that either doesn't work, they can't get elements for, or was replaced w/ a gas furnace for cheap. Pull out all the heating junk and put filters on both sides of the fan. Then either put it on the ceiling or build it into a roll around box or workbench. You could even plumb some flexible duct lines on the intake side so you can collect dust from a specific area. Doesn't have the suction of a real dust collector, but beats a box fan by several orders of magnitude.
If possible, get a variable speed fan. A monster that's sized for a 3000 sq. ft. house makes a great fan in the summer, but would freeze you in the winter.
I have one waiting for me to put it together. So far it's just an idea in my head. By winters end it should be mounted on the ceiling w/ a couple of flexible dryer hoses I can put where I want them. Later, I'll get a real dust collector, no money now.
With this system, most filtration should occur on the intake side. Anything not filtered goes through the fan and shortens it's life.
I picked up an old Coleman electric trailer house furnace for $5. Dang thing works too. Still debating wether to heat the garage or filter the air w/ it. Have to make sure it's legal to use in a non-mobile house if I use it as a furnace.
P.S. MASKS SUCK, I hate to have one on my face, but use them if it's really bad. Not nearly as much as I should.
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