EDIT: Just so it’s clear, I’m an editor at Fine Woodworking magazine, and I’m doing some background research for an article. I’m looking for personal testimonies about these woods. There’s a chance that what you write here could find its way into the magazine. END EDIT
Hey folks,
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread: http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=45214.1.
I could use a little more help. Take a look at the list of woods below. If you have used any of them, please tell me about it. In particular, tell me about the wood’s grain, hardness, workability with handtools or powertools, finishing, stability, etc. Think about it this way. If I asked you why I should use yellow birch (for example) to make a hall table, what would you say to convince me I should?
Thanks.
List of woods:
vertical grain douglas fir
eastern white pine
red alder
poplar
red elm
ash
american beech
yellow birch
hickory/pecan
aspen
soft maple
sassafras
red oak
This is my personal signature.
Edited 2/5/2009 8:59 am ET by MKenney
Replies
My personal choice from your list is Red Oak. Our kitchen cabinets are RO, and the kitchen and dining room are both trimmed in RO, along with recently added RO plate rails in the dining room. RO works well, has an interesting grain pattern and finishes rather easily. In addition, it should be more than durable enough for a hall table.
A very good friend has made several pieces from Sassafras. He loves the way it works, and particularly enjoyed the fact that he was able to get it in rough cut form pretty cheaply. Sassafras also has an interesting grain pattern that you might enjoy.
Edited 2/4/2009 1:27 pm ET by heartwould
I have used VG fir quite a lot for trim and doors. Very easy to work with and very beautiful. I live in Montana so it is locally harvested as well. We call it the hardest of the soft woods out here, and yes it is soft, compared to some hardwoods so that needs to be considered. Reclaimed old growth is my favorite, with super tight grain. We get some stuff from the west coast that is pretty, but with a wider grain pattern.
Lately, we have been using a lot of Larch, (Tamarack) for various things like flooring and trim and with good results and worker friendly.
Some have had problems with stability.
Have not used American Beech, but did work a lot with European Beech, and fought it the whole time. It just ate up blades and paper and my patience.
I am building a pie safe out of QS red oak right now, and am falling in love all over.
hmmm....
well - -
poplar (I'm familiar with Tulip Poplar 'Liriodendren Tulipifera') works well, soft, non splintering, no pronounced grain - you see poplar tops on tables commonly, tho they will dent - less common to see poplar legs - strength and durability issues - wonderful wood when used within its limitations - our 'State Tree'
Red Elm has a distinct grain, tho it looks 'coarse' to my eye - tends to be lots of tension in the boards, laying flat and staying straight are not a attribute -
Ash - I like ash - light colored, distinct grain, somewhat similar to oak, works more easily than oak - excellent weight/strength ration (think baseball bats) - makes excellent table legs - slower growing specimens yield better grain and workability -
Beech is fine for workbenches and table tops - the least rot resistant species I know of -
red oak is fine if you are using machine tools - it can be difficult to work with hand tools - can be handsome - open grained, so needs to be filled for table tops -
walnut, cherry, and poplar - the three most friendly, useful species - my 2 cents -
here's some tulip trees on the farm - with a scroungy beech in the middle
View Image
Maybe this isn't what you are asking for but Nick Engler has some fairly well organized info on the various commonly available woods in his book.
http://www.amazon.com/Nick-englers-woodworking-wisdom-Engler/dp/0762101792
He includes working properties using hand or machine tools, practical hardness, stiffness and strength info. He has a color section that shows the various woods with various finishes over them. Good stuff. Not complete and he has put the info in two places in the book rather than all together which baffles me but a great reference. I heartily recommend the rest of the book as a first go to book for beginning and intermediate woodworkers.
roc
roc,That type of information is useful, and I have take a look at other sources for the same info. What I'm after here are some personal testimonials. I'm looking for nice quotes that could end up in the magazine.But I haven't seen the book you linked to. I take a look, so thanks. I always enjoy a new book.MattThis is my personal signature.
Mkenny,
I have an entire house of European beech. And I mean everything.... floors, cabinets, trim, staircase and railing, tables, etc.. American beech is very similar. It's just processed differently here in the states and not graded in as many grades as they do over there.
I think beech is pleasure to work with because the grain is very fine and smooth. It is tough but not as tough as hickory or honey locust. In routing and planing there is no tear out to speak of. Some climb cutting necessary on occasion but not anything like oak that is stingy or cherry that "chunks" out. Sawing is easy with a carbide blade and on non critical work I used those cheapy $30 Freud blades from HD. Sanding no deal at all. Scraping good too.
The only problem with beech (and it is serious so don't take this comment trivially)...... it moves a lot. People told me on the front end that I would have trouble with wood movement and I didn't believe that it would be that big of a deal. Well, let's just say after 5 bunks of rough cut beech, I've learned how to work around and with the movement. I built a 6 foot round table. After I got done processing the top and before it was finished, it turned into a Pringle potato chip. One edge curled up literally 4 or so inches. I had to cut it off, glue on some new boards and remake. Bummer.
Be careful choosing beech unless you really must use it cause you love it (like me) or you have a use that is massive enough to preclude trouble from movement (like a bench top). If you do choose it though, it's very easy to work with and looks great when done. A very art nouveau look (not at all like oak or even maple)
Rob Kress
I have used Red Alder a few times for cabinet jobs. It is sold around here (midwest) in two varieties: 1. Superior Alder -nice, reasonably straight grain that works well, but can tear out with some undulating grain. 2. Rustic (knotty) alder- terrific for the rustic looking cabinet jobs, but beware of stock selection. Knot holes tend to fall out, and the knots seem to degrade to a very soft, punky, black substance which chalks and falls apart easily. The wood, as a whole, is very soft, and easy to work with, as long as you pay attention to grain direction. It accepts finish very well, and will blotch horribly if you don't prep your stock properly.
Soft maple is a favorite wood of mine, as it is plentiful around here in the midwest, and I cut and saw my own logs. I use the better outer boards from the log for furniture and cabinetry. They often have alot of figure, with birdseye and tiger stripe (curly) being found quite frequently. The inner boards (heartwood) usually have alot of brown streaking in them, and I use these boards as a secondary wood in drawers, and structure, etc... for furniture and cabinetry. Soft maple finishes very well. The trees most common for it around here are Silver Maple and Red Maple. I can get all I need from local tree service companies in log form.
Poplar is another wood that is readily available in quantity in the midwest. I use alot of it to make mouldings when doing paint grade architectural cabinetry and moulding work in houses. I also use it excusively for paint grade cabinetry work. Since I have alot of it on hand all the time, I also use it when designing new furniture, chairs, etc.... for mock ups. It's inexpensive to use this way, and always burns well in the fire when finished (lol). It accepts paint very well.
Those are the three I use off of your list.
Jeff
Poplar is fine for a secondary wood for furniture construction, but it doesn't have a rich look when it's stained, so I wouldn't use it for anything that showed. It's also rather soft, so not a good choice for a table top or other application where it would be subject to that kind of wear and tear.
I used ash for a table for a client and was happy with it. I did some carving in it and found it to be straight-grained and quite suitable for carving with sharp gouges. It takes stain well.
I recently finished a banquet table made from red oak and was very happy with the results. The client did not want the grain filled, but the stock I was working with did not have especially noticeable open pores, so the end result was a very satisfactory finish. I think red oak has gotten a bad reputation with some woodworkers because it was overused in cheap furniture years ago.
Jim
As someone who's been a woodworker for only a few years, I'll caution you that my perspective is of someone who's relatively inexperienced. So take this for what it's worth:
Out of the species I've used so far, maple—both soft and hard—is my favorite. Partly this is sentiment: growing up in New Hampshire, I have wonderful associations with maple trees in all seasons. Since taking up furniture building, though, I've found that maple is a pleasure to hand plane and becomes quite silky when touched up with hand scrapers.
But the main reason I love using maple is its ability to surprise. I consider it a secretive wood: unfinished it can appear beautifully light in color but a bit bland at first, with little obvious grain or figure. But add a very dilute wash of water-based dye, and a board that seemed to have little figure can reveal some lovely curl or other patterns that you might not have fully known was there. I love that moment when a maple board reveals itself this way.
Norman
One of the first things I did with my "new" used bandsaw was cut up a few short pecan logs into boards. I set them aside to dry (25 years ago) and used a few pieces over the years. What I found is that pecan is a hard, dense wood that cuts OK with sharp tools but does not tolerate a dull plane iron. It turns fine and I have several pecan mallets I use to whack my chisels. Hardly a dent in them after 25 years of my abuse. It would make a super bench top, hard as concrete.
I still have some pecan pieces waiting for the right project, once I get the jointer, planer, and everthing with an edge sharpened.
PS: I live in a pecan orchard of 100 small trees. Pronounced pa-cawn around here (north Texas) not pe-can. The nuts off the tree are the best nut there is.
List of woods:
vertical grain douglas fir
eastern white pine
red alder
poplar
red elm
ash
american beech
yellow birch
hickory/pecan
aspen
soft maple
sassafras
red oak
I have a little time and thought I would comment on the woods from your list that I use on a fairly regular basis.
Red Oak is plentiful here in the southeast(nc) and very reasonably priced if you get it from a wood supplier. In most cases, I buy my boards from selected logs from a sawyer near me. I can get quarter sawn wood at a bit higher cost and only when it is "convenient" for the sawyer to switch "mental gears" and do it. With the quartered stock I can use a froe to split chair parts for windsors if I am in a rush or I don't feel like busting open 8' logs. I can get some very nice bending parts with the red oak, shape it, steam it and put it on the shelf. Unlike hickory, I can bore holes for spindles 3 months down the road. This makes the red oak my first choice for bending chair parts.
Red Oak: it has a rather unpleasant smell when you spend an entire day with the stuff. Some may enjoy it.. I get tired of it after a while. Not as bad as a day with walnut dust-- sneezing blues for me.
2. Soft Maple: I call it Red maple and I hear others refer to it as "soft maple" so I will assume we might be looking at the same wood here. I love the stuff. I hunt for sugar maple and red maple every place I visit on the east coast. I want curly maple: red or sugar(hard). I use them for building kentucky rifles and other blackpowder rifles. Over the years I have found a couple of things to be true in my search: there is a whole lot more curly red maple out there than sugar. Additionally, I have found some red maple to be very, very hard and just fabulous for carving and shaping. Red maple is great stuff. Red maple stinks for any use in the weather. Avoid all maple for tough outside use - it stinks. Go back to oak- white if available.
Hickory- tons of it here on the Piedmont area of NC. I use it much like the red oak- chair parts for bending and straight grained spindles. Note: get it while its green folks. When it dries, you can hit it with a hammer and it will bounce back and hit you in the head. Once hickory dries up I don't mess with it. If I left it longer that 24" I don't even recut with a chain saw. I hate sharpening that saw. Again, get it while its green, shape it and it will last a life time. I have an axe handle that I have missed the target with many times and it just won't break.
Poplar: this is a great secondary wood. I have had a couple of logs cut up over the years with 30" diameters and I've heard others talk about bigger trunks. The stuff is great. Easy to mill and a joy to work with your hand tools. Takes a nice crisp edge and it seems very stable to me. I have air dried lots of this stuff and it is a "high success wood" at the end of the dry-cycle. If you can get it at a fair price, its worth having some around. I don't like the way it looks as a dyed/stained wood. Not for me. I use it exclusively as a secondary wood for furniture building. Now I am using yellow pine because I got 1000' of 4/4 boards for a low price. I think the poplar is a little nicer to work with hand tools but I do like the pine smell.
White Pine- anyone who has made 100 windsor chairs will have a warm spot for white pine. The tools glide thru it and it takes a nice shine with a sharp edge. It smells great as you're working it and its light weight. After I put the maple legs in the bottom of the seat, insert the red oak/hickory spindles in the top and set the maple armposts in the pine seat its a strong and light chair. I believe there's a harmony to the chair: the soft pine accepts the shock of the person sitting in the chair as the legs are more brittle(hard maple) making the chair a bit flexible and more apt to give. You can see the chair twist and move a little- like a bridge on a windy day. White pine is a bit pricey these days if you want to find the stock without knots. Its a challenge but its out there.
I have used alder and elm but not enough to feel a kinship to the stuff. The only other wood I have used as much as any mentioned is black walnut. I have used this a great deal and hope to continue using walnut as I have gotten away from the mahogany.
Photos: some pictures of the wood in use. Thought it would be funny to post a photo using 4 of the woods discussed in one project. Chair: pine, maple, r.oak and hickory. Missed on the poplar but you can substitute the poplar for the pine seat if it isn't too hard.
I'm waiting for a call and I think I better go.
later
dan
Edited 2/5/2009 2:16 pm ET by danmart
Edited 2/5/2009 2:19 pm ET by danmart
In 1977 my local kiln drying place showed me a load of rif & plain sawn sassafrass and said I could get it for $.30/bd.ft. I took it and made a desk from it. Most people thought it was oak without the wild grin. It milled and cut like eastern pine. Sanded quite well but had a tendency to be a bit fuzzy. The only problem I had was that the oil base stain I used took a long time to dry, over 3 days. Then I applied a coat of varnish and that took 3 to 4 days to dry. The next two coats dried within 4 hours. I have always had this problem even just using varnish and no stain. I have not tried a water base finish. Again I am still using this same batch of wood purchased in 1977. When processing the wood, it has a very distinct aroma and the shop smells great for a day or so. I enjoy working with it but few clients request it and when shown the wood they do not want anything made from it enen though this lot could pass for red oak. Thinking back this wood milled most like pine and dents very easy.
I've used several of the species on your list with the specific species usually determined by the "look" desired by the customer.
One of the first things I ask a prospective customer to provide are pictures of furniture/cabinets they like and the reason(s) they like them (color, grain, goes with the rest of the house, etc). This usually narrows the field and I can develop cost numbers based on material prices, ease of staining and finishing, etc. I have a small collection of samples and usually make more so they can see what they'll be paying for.
One of my new favorite woods is Beech. Last year, a customer showed me pictures of some ultra modern cabinets (slab doors and drawer fronts with 1/8" spaces) and asked if I could do them in Beech. I told her that I had never worked with Beech and that the only thing I knew about it was that it was used to make Budweiser beer, but that I would check it out. I found a local supplier, made a couple of samples (just a clear finish), and realized that the stuff is gorgeous!! It's color variation and grain are definitely noticeable but much more subtle than red oak. I found it pretty easy to work with and - so far, anyway - there have been no stability issues. It was a bit pricey ($100 for a sheet of A1 ply), but worth it IMHO.
Poplar is my first choice for paint grade work - it's economical, easy to work with, and stable. I've done a few pieces in Poplar with a clear finish and think that it can be quite attractive if I take the time to carefully select the stock. It's a little too soft, though, for high use projects.
I have used ash in several different projects, including a dining table, and some living room furniture in the past. In those days my wife and I were into "Early American" furniture and maple wasn't as cheap as ash.
Grain: not as tight as most other hardwoods
hardiness: very hard, takes a lot of abuse before it dents, splinters fairly easily
workability (used mostly power tools): cuts easily with very minimum burning, because of the hardness and loose grain ash it's difficult to sand to a smooth surface this included pieces turned on a lathe
Finishing: I used many layers of Deft lacquer (the original Deft, not the new stuff) with no stain. The multiple layers of Deft with an abundance of sanding between coats did provide a smooth surface for my table tops
Stability: The furniture I built in the late '60s/early '70s is holding up very well with little wood movement, the dining table is now being used in my shop as an assembly table
At one time I made a series of small gift boxes from sassafras. I left the inside of these boxes unfinished. The boxes still have a wonderful smell when opened. The wood is lovely, easy to work, and the scent is something that can add an extra dimension to a box or drawer.
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