I am planning to purchase a 10″ cabinet saw. After much research, I am leaning toward purchasing the Laguna Platinum with Dovetail Lift Mechanism.
Before I make a major purchase like this, I am interested in hearing from cabinet saw owners. What do you like about them, how do they perform, and ,most of all, what you don’t like. Most cabinet saws have 3HP or more, good rip fences, etc. What are the short comings and the little annoyances of each model?
I have read the reviews and articles. I am interested in hearing from experienced owners and users please. When I am wood working, I like to wood work, not mess around with clunky tools.
Replies
I've used two Grizzly 1023s, a Jet, and now own a Shop Fox 1677 cab saw. All were good saws and definitely heavier and more powerful than my previous contractor saw or hybrid.
Here's my likes and dislikes of the Shop Fox:
I like the fit and finish, power, smoothness, stability, longer arbor, bigger arbor flange, larger handwheels, switch, heavy steel motor cover, and overall construction of the Shop Fox. The additional dado insert was also a plus. The SF manual was pretty good and their CS was great the one time I called. The SF Classic fence is very good, but I prefer the real Biesemeyer. The stock miter gauge is massive but not as precision oriented as a good aftermarket gauge. The SF has two 10" cast iron wings for a total 40" CI width. My former 22124 hybrid has 12" wings and 44" of CI width, and also had a beveled front edge on the wings, which I prefered. The stock blade guard and splitter pretty much suck on the SF, but I've since added a BORK riving knife that works well....no guard at this time.
You may want to search about Laguna customer service issues that have been reported on these pages in the not too distant past.
Cabinet saws were recently reviewed aI believe the new Delta Unisaw rated on top based on a number of convenience factors. US made as well.
Steve,I think several years back they had CS issues. But I believe they made several improvements since then. My experience with Laguna was very good. A little over a year ago, I put a large deposit on some new equipment and had to cancel my purchase just prior to delivery. They promptly and cheerfully refunded several thousand dollars without incident. They did offer several scenarios in which they could work with me in effort to keep the order. But I was not pressured. Neither did they act unprofessionally. I am aware others had seemingly legitimate complaints with them in the years previous to my experience. But I have not read about similar issues in the past year or so. When I get to a point that I can install the new equipment, I will order from them again. Greg
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Steve and all,
Recently, I spoke to a Laguna C/S rep, Don as I am looking at their sliding table saws and bandsaws. I brought up their bad reputation with C/S and his response was that a while back, they were really short staffed and have since made changes. He also said that I could call him directly if I needed any help and he would find the answers himself and get back to me. Sounds good to me.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I have the Laguna TS and the Laguna 18" bandsaw and have been very happy with both purchases. I bought them about 4 years ago and have not been unhappy with either purchase. I had an issue with the fence rail dinged during shipping and they sent me a new one right away. I have not had any problems with Laguna CS, but Steve is right there have been issues with others in the past. I am happy to hear they have some of those issues resolved. Steve is also correct about the new Unisaw, but it is $2,900 and the Laguna is $1,600. In machinery you seem to get what you pay for. My TS was more then all of those tested, but it has a scoring blade and a 5HP Baldor motor and is 12" so you have to compare saws of the same cost. Steel City has done some interesting things lately and they have a five year warranty and you get them at a local tool dealer. No shipping cost and someone to return it to if it goes south is something to think about. If I was buying a saw today 12/03/08 I would buy a Sawstop cabinet saw.
Terry,
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I am looking at the TSS, which is the TS with a sliding table. Are there any problems/annoyances you have had with the saw? Do you have the mobility kit? How do you think it would work on a rough concrete floor?
Thanks,Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
The thing I don't like about the Laguna sliders is the lack of a real outrigger support on the sliding table. The Rojek PK 300A has such an outrigger support and while many may question why it's a big deal, I like to be able to handle sheetgoods as well as being able to deal with solid wood table tops. You don't get that support on the Laguna sliders. Also the Rojek takes a dado blade. The PK 300A has a 4' slider version which is perfect for a small shop.
http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/panel_saws.php
I've been using panel saws for 35 years and consider a cabinet saw only half a saw. With a panel saw I don't need a radial arm saw or miter saw in the shop if you are tight on space.
How do you think it would work on a rough concrete floor.
Most of the panel saws I've used sit on three legs so stability on a rough floor isn't a problem. We typically use a pallet jack but it wouldn't be hard to add a caster system if needed.
Chris,
I went through the same thought process about a new saw. I wanted the TSS, but too many critics said the slider is too flimsy for heavy sheet goods. I really wanted a Felder 500, but it would not fit in my space no matter how I rearranged my shop. I don't know anything about the Rojek saw RickL is talking about, but he really seems to know his stuff about machinery. If you are looking for a slider I would check out the Felder line(Hammer as well) and the Rojek that Rick recommends. I am very happy with the performance of my TS, but I rarely use sheet goods in making furniture. Just backs and drawer bottoms and I brake them down with my Festool plunge saw.
Terry and Rick,
Thanks for your input on the Laguna slider. I'll look into the Rojek. Rick, I'm waiting for my Hammer DVD.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
There's others out there as well. Sicar, Paolini, etc. Don't expect to find reviews on many of these or any hobby woodworkers knowledge of the majority of machines. When we bougth our $100,000 Wadkin Moulder there was no magazine or online review. Seems there's more reviews on the small tools than on the big stuff. Every year are changes and it's not something Consumer Reports can keep up with. As a purchasing agent I realize there's only half of the choices at best presented anywhere.
These two brand you mention, Sicar and Paolini, I have never even heard of. Would you recommend that I stick with a more well known name? Or are these brands top of the line and just not well known because they cater to production shops and don't market themselves to home workshoppers?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Sicar and Paolini don't chase the hobby markets. Industrial machines. Bet you never heard of http://www.kufogroup.com/SK-250TS-A.htm They've been in the states for at least 20 years and have been advertising in some of the hobby mags. There's lots of companies the hobby woodworker has never heard of. Do what you feel comfortable with.
I have their DC and had it since the late 80's and still going strong. I noticed that they had added TS's to the line up. Interesting. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
The Kufo table saw looks really nice. I love the cross cut table. The scoring blade would be great for plywood. There is a place called factorynew.com that sells it for $3186.Do you know anyone who has one? I have been looking at Oliver machinery as well. My hardwood supplier is a dealer for them. They mainly make industrial tools as well. The price they quoted me for a 24" band saw got my attention. Most table saws take pride in the nickel test. Oliver claims their TS passes a dime test. They are USA made and have been in business since 1890. Are there any Oliver owners/users that care to contribute?
Oliver isn't made in the US. Long out of business and the name is all that's left.
http://olivermachinery.net/info.asp?content=history Bogus!
I don't see anything in the link you provided that indicates anything bogus. They look like heavy-duty machinery to me. I don't really care where a saw is made or how long the manufacturer has been around, although it makes you feel good if you should need service or parts. I just want to buy a saw that is high-quality and safe for the least amount of money possible, like everybody else.
They bought the name. The original company has nothing to do with the new company.
Not sure of the cost compared to what you are looking at. I knew a guy that died last year that had a Grizzly Sliding saw.
http://grizzly.com/products/10-Sliding-Tablesaw/G0623X I believe it was this one.
He loved it and it was used everyday for cutting plywood to custom order for some wood shops he did things for. It has an outrigger. However he had a shop WAY bigger than mine. I had a chance to use it several times. Nice saw but I usually use my 'so called crap' Big Box Ridgid TS with a JessEm MastRSlide 7500. NOT a true slider saw but it works for me.
HOWEVER, as somebody posted.. The JessEm and others will flex a bit with heavy panels on it..
When using very heavy sheets I have to use an adjustable support that fits under it AND a roller stand for the sheet part that hangs off.
I DO NOT HAVE a Grizzly but have used a few more that a few times. Fit/Finish nice but not perfect. They work! All that counts by my standards.
Chris,Have you heard about this new saw from Shopfox, the W1811, it supposed to also take a dado blade?http://www.woodstockint.com/products/w1811/http://www.woodshopnews.com/index.php/tools-machines/18-tools-a-machines/497884-shop-fox-debuts-10q-sliding-table-saw
Maximum dado width: 13/16"
According to the spec sheet it takes a dado blade! I like that it has the outrigger support for doing sheet goods and panels. Sounds like a winner for entry level panel saws.
Edited 12/7/2008 8:39 am ET by RickL
Thanks for letting me know. The features look impressive and $4459 sounds pretty reasonable too. Being a Vancouverite, I have no experience with the brand and haven't heard too much about them either. Are they part of the WMH tool group? Anyone have any comments on quality?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,A while back I did a little research on Woodstock Intl. the company that makes ShopFox. It was started and is run by Shiraz Balolia, the founder of Grizzly Tools. Apparently Shiraz originally started with a tool store in Canada! The ShopFox W1811 looks a lot like the Grizzly G0623X with the exception of the Dado capability.
Chris, caught your post. I bought a Tss about 2 yrs ago. I had already bought a 16" BS from them too, so I knew what to expect as far as cust service goes. it was fine. Do you have the mobility kit? yes, and it will work fine on a rough concrete surface. Probably better than a 4 wheel mobility kit you find under other saws.
I sold a 3 yr old PM 66 to buy this saw and have never looked back. I appreciate mulitiple stop buttons, very easy cranks, awesome fence. I had the Bies on the PM66 and I prefer the unifence type on this saw. You can slide the fence back to use as a stop for repetitive cross cuts. it has a micro dial to move the fence instead of the tap tap method. I also got the positive stop mitre table which is very accurate and once its set, its done. it also handles dado blades. standard size american arbor, no need to change blades. scoreing blade is a must. Very very nice. NO tearout. squaring panels is a breeze too.
I feel it is an excellect saw. No, it does not have an outrigger, however, i am tight on space and when in do have to cut a large panel use a roller ball support stand.
Finally, I still would prefer ripping long boards on an american style cab saw. I am not saying the Tss is the best saw, it just really fits the way I work. The sawstop gets my vote for american style saws. IMHO Happy shopping. joe
An outrigger is an option for the TSS now.
I have an older TSS without an outrigger and I've had no problem cutting full sized panels in half but supporting more than 48" to the left of the blade wouldn't be possible without some help. It's a very nice saw.
Laguna has a couple of nice looking sliders in their Platinum line.
Have a Laguna bandsaw from a few years back, and bought a jointer/planer combo recently. Both fine machines, no problems with them or Laguna CS. Jimmy
First.. I do believe that Laguna has pretty much gotten their head out of their hinny and realized that you if you can't service the customer after the sale you aren't going to stay in business as the competition is fierce. I demonstrated machines for Steel City Toolworks at IWF and the Laguna booth was beside us. The attitude has changed from my past experiences with them.
With that said.. I looked over the new Laguna Platinum at the IWF Show from top to bottom.. and crawled underneath. A pretty good saw for the price point but not better IMO than others in the same price range. It was added to have an alternative to the more expensive sliders they sell.
I have owned a Uni-saw (good saw).. used a PM 66 (the older version is an excellent saw).. used the Griz 1023.. Steel City 3 hp... and all of them are very good saws. I looked at Jet but felt the new version didn't match up internally with some others in the price point.
So... I went home with a Steel City 5 HP which is made in a different plant than the 3 HP and here's why. $1800.. 5 HP.. larger table than the 3 HP's.. excellent cast iron finish and the guts are as beefy if not beefier than the Saw-stop and older PM 66's with tolerances basically the same as SS and better than the older PM 66.
That last statement will grit a few teeth and I'm sorry if it does but.... a spade is a spade when you have a good view of the playing cards.
Good luck...
Sarge..
Sarge, I've been very interested in your comments about your new 5hp Steel City saw--and your chance to compare that with other saws. A recent kickback accident with my Delta contractor saw which ripped my arm open and required 19 stitches to repair has me looking at a new saw. In trying to reconstruct the accident in my mind (folks have said that with kickback there is no time to react, and boy is that true--just try to stop the bleeding after it happens) I believe a riving knife would have prevented the accident. And a recent FWW article about riving knife saws showed the Steel City to compare favorably with others tested. But it appears from the Steel City site that your 5hp model does not have a riving knife. Do you know of any plans to include one?Thanks for your input to this forum--I find it invaluable. Keep it coming.Bob
I appreciate all the feedback from everyone. I have never owned a cabinet saw, just 2 contractor saws. I've been out of wood working for a few years while I earned my degree. I sold all my floor tools but kept my Leigh dovetail jig, routers, bits, blades, stock feeder, chisels, Tormec sharpening center, etc. I need to purchase a table saw, band saw, planer, joiner, etc. The only performance issue I was disappointed with on my Ridgid table saw was the gravity tensioned belt which would slip while ripping thick hardwood. I am seriously considering making a band saw such as a Laguna 16HD or a Mini Max MM16 the central tool in my new shop and purchase the new Ridgid hybrid table saw. I intend to work with more exotic stock as well as re-saw reclaimed lumber and scavenged logs. A great band saw seems to make sense to me. I had a Jet 14" in my old shop, and I hated it. There was no love lost the day I sold that thing. I would love to buy a great band saw and a cabinet saw, but I have to be a bit conservative at this point. Keep the reviews coming please.
Afternoon Bob...
I have not ask that question to Steel City Toolworks in about a month. I do know there will be some changes on some saws that you might not see before the large WW Show in Las Vegas this summer. But the large show in Atlanta and Las Vegas is where manufacturers like to reveal what is up their sleeve and they keep their secrets pretty well hush mouth.
I was aware of several things being kept secret before IWF last August as the variable speed drill press. But... I swore and oath to keep the secret just that. In this case I cannot say what changes are going to be made to the TS's. But Scott Box (president of Steel City) did look me in the eye and tell me SC was doing some re-design to TS's to meet the publics demands and compete with others doing the same. The good news he seemed to have a twinkle in his eye when he said that last August.
I love the 5 HP as it is extremely well built. I did do some modification to the top side that I personally don't think would have allowed your arm to go ballistic. Even with a splitter in lieu of a riving knife... I consider my saw about as safe as you can get without gong to a power feeder.
If I hear anything.. I will book-mark you and send an e-mail from the forum. I have to call Jim Box (brother of Scott and technical department) in the next few days. I will ask specifically but as I stated... things of that nature usually stay hidden until "Show - Time".. ">)
Take a look at the pictures below and see if you feel you might have avoided your accident?
Sarge..
Edited 12/4/2008 2:00 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 12/4/2008 2:01 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 12/4/2008 2:02 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Thanks for the photos, Sarge. That's a GREAT setup. If you ever decide to make drawings available I'm first in line to order. Even so, I don't think anything short of a riving knife would have prevented the accident. While not a freak situation, I've talked to a couple of cabinet shop owners here and they both said they do the same kind of thing I did several times a day without incident. Goes to show...one can never be too safe, or have too many clamps.Bob
Not much to draw up as all mods are pretty simple. If you decide to do something like this in lieu of the riving knife.. let me know and I will get some close-up pictures of each component as the pictures would be more of less self explanatory.
Sarge..
Sorry about you accident. Nothing I ever had caused me to have 19 stitches but I thought I was going to die anyway! Hit me in the chest and I could NOT BREATH!
I had the splitter on (not a riving knife) Without the other overhead safety stuff on.. YES MY FAULT.. But sometimes you have to use the saw that way.. At least the way I do things...
I for one think a Riving knife is wonderful BUT hardly the final answer!
The local com. college has 5 saw stop saws and they are really nice saws. They used to have Unisaws and a Powermatic 66 and the Saw Stops seem to be at least equal in sturdiness and finish. The safety features seem to be really well thought out and the saw brake while much argued about is a nice feature in my book. When I have the change to replace my contractors saw at home it will be with a saw stop table saw. Good luck with your purchase.
Troy
http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/index.php
Another option...
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