I am about to buy a bandsaw. I know this topic has been discussed in many threads. Over the past few days, I have searched here on Fine Woodworking, and other forums, and Grizzly seems to get very positive ratings from most people.
Grizzly just won best value from FWW while Laguna was best overall.
A little background on me and what I am trying to do. First, I only have a few hours a week,at most, to enjoy woodworking and will probably never be able to do more than 10 hours a week – even when retired. I use hadntools a lot and can joint edges by hand, if necessary. I mention this because I would like to use the bandsaw for resawing, curves and ripping in place of a table saw – i am flexible here but would at least try this before buying a table saw.
i would like to buy one saw that I can keep for a very long time. I feel confident that if I bought the Laguna, I would be buying a top saw and would be happy – but I hate wasting money and I am not convinced that the extra expense is worth it. the baldor motor does add value imho.
So, that leads me to the new 14” Grizzly. I don’t need a huge saw and I think this probably fits my needs. The truth is, though, that the reason I am focussed on this model (G0457) is that it was written up in FWW. If they chose the 17” or 19” model, I would be looking at that one. Seems a little random to me.
Any suggestions about how to make a selection with all of the models out there?
Thanks, Chris
Replies
If you want a forever and ever saw, the 14" Grizzly might not be quite the ticket. It's a basic intro saw, and though well-designed for its class and quite the bargain, I wouldn't choose it if I had the budget for something better. (My bandsaw is an older Grizzly 14").
Don't rely solely on a magazine review to make your decision either, especially just one review. Reviews have their place, but I find it more useful to read many reviews by different magazines and see what comments seem to come up repeatedly on one particular model. Then it's more likely it's a valid conclusion rather than just one reviewer and his snit or positive inclination (sorry, caffeine hasn't kicked in, can't write worth a darned this morning).
The 4 that I personally would consider are Grizzly G0513, the Steel City 18" saw, the MiniMax and the Laguna. There is a ton of info on the Steel City saw here at Knots from Sarge and a few others that bought the saw after considering his info. There is an ongoing controversy about Laguna and their customer service, so you might want to look into that.
Forestgirl, I will take a look at the saws you recommended. I really like the laguna - I do not like the price and the delay. Apparently, it will take 60+ days to arrive. On top of that, they're talking $300+ shipping - Ouch!
I checked out the Griz 5013 - one thing that stuck out right away is the table tilt restriction of 5 degrees. It's been a long time, but I think that last time I made dovetail cuts on my bandsaw, I needed 7 degrees. If so, that would be a deal killer here. I like to have that flexibility - sometimes by hand it just takes too long. Do you have an opinion?
My Grizzly catalog says it tilts 10 degrees left and 45 degrees right, which sounds far more likely.John White
Thanks, John. I will call Grizzly before making a decision. And, yes, it does make more sense.
Chris
I'm not sold on the welded steel bandsaws. I like the dampening weight of older-style cast iron saws. But that's me.
If you're thinking about Grizzly, consider the GO555X with a riser. As I recall it was also reviewed in FWW. Plenty powerful enough and with a riser it uses 105" blades which are easier to find than numerous different lengths that welded bandsaws use. Also being the classic Delta rip-off style, parts will always be around making it a "forever" saw.
Oh yeah, you'd also save $250 clams over the GO457.
http://www.ithacawoodworker.com
JsHerbel - I'll take a look. Sounds like you, and a lot of other people, like the Girzzlys.
Wish you the best with your research, I'll see if I can find a couple of links for you. MiniMax seems to get very good reviews on customer service -- I have a friend in Seattle who has one and have read comments from other forum members. Don't know what Blew's problem is with F&F, Tom's saw is a joy to behold.
Steel City is a young company started by very experienced executives, and they have provided incredibly good service to everyone I know of who've needed it (including myself, on a used mortiser I bought).
Off to find links.....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I bought a laguna 16hd two years ago ,probably the best purchase I have made in my shop.I have read about issues with thier customer service,But I have never experieced any . I resaw alot of high end wood ,the cuts left by the resaw king blade are hard to match.(ie)less sanding.whenever I've had a question I call the tech number and get an answer immeditatly.just chippin in Art
I have both kudos and complaints for the Minimax.
On the plus side ....
it is heavy
has a good spring
solid, quiet wheels
lots of power
On the negative side
The fence is beyond crude. Rather than slide, it grinds lines in the tabletop.
The scale is unreadable
The table is tedious and awkward to tilt, so much so that I've given up tilting it and build tilted jigs to act as false tables.
Dust collection is non-existent.
About this time, the good folk will chime in with a dozen ways of retrofitting my machine to make it less dysfunctional. And I appreciate that, and am working towards some of those suggestions. However, I believe when one pays thousands of dollars for a machine, one should not have to pay with their time to cover over poor design and workmanship.
Put it this way. The craftsmanship that all of us here so desire to attain, was far from attained in the manufacturing of this Minimax machine of mine.
I just don't want the new buyer to think all is rosy on an expensive machine, because it aint.
Bluebird,
Unless you're planning to resaw big honkin' chunks of wood, or saw a 24" wide plank down the middle, I think reliability and ease of use (with regard to maintenance, blade changes, etc.) is more important than physical size or sheer power. Resawing is the only thing that will really tax the saw's power capability, and even a 3/4 HP saw can resaw a 12" plank if you're patient.
So, my advice would be to pay more for quality, but don't bother with paying more for size/power.
-Steve
saschafer - good catch on the name.
Good advice. I like quality and I will probably not be resawing huge chuncks of wood. I am guessing 6-8 inches max. Famous last words, right.
If your main concern is resawing, but don't feel as if you need an industrial grade, then get the best mid-level grade you can like a topper end Griz or Jet. Resawing takes power and blade tension. You don't get much of either of those with low end saws, unless you can stand there and feed REAL REAL slow. And BTW, I have a MiniMax, and I won't tax you with the details, but in terms of power, it's good, and in terms of quality, fit, finish and dust collection, it's pretty crappy IMO.
Edited 4/22/2008 2:56 pm ET by blewcrowe
OK - MiniMax is of the list
Okay, but that's my opinion. There are others here who LOVE Minimax.
I just saw the "MiniMax if off the list" comment. Sialia, if you cross a tool off your list because one person doesn't like it, you'll be working in an empty shop. Ask around!!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
of course, you're right - I was just trying to reduce my list a little. I did visit the minimax site and the saw looks great! I feel like I have paralysis by analysis.
Hi Sialia,I went through this exercise a couple of years back and bought the small Hammer saw (N4400) for my home workshop - ideal for a small commercial shop and miles ahead of the Taiwanese clones that I've used frequently.Don't know if it's available in your neck of the woods. It's a rebadged machine from one of the higher-end (highest?) Italian manufacturers.Cheers,eddie
Edited 4/22/2008 11:48 pm by eddiefromAustralia
I seem to remember that Hammer has a distributor her in DE. I'll check that.
I understand, but (a) your list isn't all that long <grin> and (b) removing the MiniMax is like taking the Porsche out of the sports-car running.
I wish I could find Sarge's big post on the Steel City band saw (he compared it hands-on with Powermatic and Jet, IIRC. But the search engine wasn't helping me at all this morning.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Jaimie,This could be the link you wanted.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=31804.1I was asked if I could name the manufacturer of the Hammer machine, but I probably shouldn't. I will say that the Italian machines are as good as each other with only minor variations. The MiniMax machine, I believe, is made by the parent company, SCM. I don't think it's a rebadged Griggio or similar. I can't fault the Hammer machine in the slightest.Forgot to mention Chris/sialia, the Hammer saw was cheap as it was an introductory pricing into the country. Price now is about AUD3000- or so. Correction: see link
http://feldernsw.felder-gruppe.at/?page=news&id=965With the recent drop in value of the USD, this may make it uneconomical, if indeed it is supplied to the US.Cheers,eddie
Edited 4/22/2008 11:48 pm by eddiefromAustralia
Well, I see you pushing the MM16. I really don't have the experience of other saws but I can tell you the MM16 is a fine saw. My only regret is that I didn't wait a few months as Bridgewood had the MM20 for only $100.00 more and I would have had to gone and gotten it.
Hi, Tinkerer, glad you're enjoying your MM. I would somewhat disagree that I'm "pushing" the MM, just didn't want him to reject it out of hand with so little input. Me? I'd certainly welcome one into my shop, LOL, but don't envision it simply appearing. The chorus of dissatisfaction about Laguna's customer service speaks loudly to me though, I have no desire to get into a relationship with that company.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"pushing" Sorry about the poor choice of words. I knew it was wrong when I wrote it but couldn't think of a better term. -- Just wait till you get old. You might have some of the same problems.
I think the Laguna is also a good saw. When I asked Sam Blasco, from MM where I got the MM16 about the Laguna, He said it was a good saw. After seeing the discussion of a year or two ago on this forum, I can't see a Laguna rep saying that about MM. I was seriously considering the Laguna until then.
"Just wait till you get old." Oh, you're such a dear! I needed that little cheer-her-up tonight, LOL! what with the bod feeling every one of my ^% years and then some.
Yep, I have no use for a company that goes about their sales the way Laguna does, and if even half of the poor-CS stores are true, no thanks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Tinkerer,
Just to be fair, I spoke with a rep at Laguna yesterday and he said, "the MM is a very good saw." In fact, although I can see that the sales technique was modeled after a life-insurance hard-sell program, or the like, the guy I have been speaking with seems like a pretty good guy.
Of course, that's sales and not customer service. I have no knowledge of that, yet. Maybe I will; laguna's still on my list.
On a separate note, I called over to Festool after dropping my saw - service was exceptional. What part do you need, I will get it out today, no charge, no questions about when I bought the saw and please call if you have any questions. Very positive experience.
Chris
It may be that their sales techniques are changing or perhaps you got a different salesman. Really it is kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face, so to speak, to boycott a good machine because the sales staff is not up to snuff. However, if the service is poor or nonexistent, that is another story. Service can be as important as the quality of the machine itself. Sometime ago, someone was complaining about their bandsaw. I think, it was idle for upwards of a year because they couldn't get service or parts. That might have been an isolated case, or the service might have improved but having an experience like that can take a lifetime of good service to forgive or forget.
Edited 4/26/2008 8:43 pm ET by Tinkerer3
Edited 4/26/2008 8:44 pm ET by Tinkerer3
Jamie, I see you extolling the MM16. It is a mighty fine saw though I really don't have much experience with other saws to compare with it. Mine is probably two years old. Sarge was going to get one so when I got mine he backed out and got the SC. My only regret is that I didn't wait a few months as Bridgewood had a MM20 for about $100.00 more than I paid but I would have gone to eastern PA to pick it up.
If you'll go back to my posts to him, you'll see I emphasized to him that this was my sole opinion, and to not judge based just on what I said.
Blew, I'm not blaming you for his impulsiveness.
Sorry to hear you've been disappointed in your MiniMax (which model, BTW?). Your experience is so different from my Seattle friend Tom (tms, doesn't hang out here much) that I'm very surprised. He's a life-long woodworker with a stunning shop, and his MiniMax has been a great saw. I know there are other MM owners here at Knots, wonder where they all are?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 4/23/2008 10:08 am by forestgirl
Forestgirl, mine is an MM16, manufactured in 2003 by a company called Centauro. I know that I stand pretty much alone in my frustration with this piece of equipment.
I have owned a Mini Max for a number of years and find it more of a value every time I use it. I went from a $400 saw (70's vintage, 18" Tiawan) to the MM which I paid right at $1800 for. Based on performance, accuracy, stability, design, FIT and FINISH and dust collecting I would guess the MM's value at about $40,000 by comparison!!
I'm sure of two things:
1. It will last me the rest of my life
2. I'll never regret buying it
I'm not sure about the Laguna or others but many saws require you to shim the upper section to align the upper guide bar if needed. The MM provides a VERY SIMPLE adjustment to achieve a guide bar that is parallel with the blade from top to bottom.
When I bought the MM a few years back, Laguna was having some motor issues. This has been resolved with the Baldor motors. I have read several negative posts about Laguna's customer service and at least one about MM.
If you are going to use a band saw a lot or even think you might, I don't think you can go wrong with either. If you are intent on expanding your woodworking I think the same applies. I would encourage you on this major purchase to buy a better saw than you NEED RIGHT NOW. This is an item you won't want to upgrade later on.
If you have the space, time, budget and electrical power available you might want to consider "old iron". Some cast iron monster from days gone by. These are great and make even the best of the "new style" saws look like toys. Most of them are 3 phase which is a slight issue at the very least.
Best of luck on your decision; be sure to post your final choice
Regards,
Mack
"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Edited 4/22/2008 8:36 pm ET by Mackwood
Mack, note my post 41468.26
I don't know if I caught the company at a bad time or what, but I've a 2000 sq.ft. shop filled with tools and I'd say the Minimax was probably my worst purchase. (Purchase made about four years ago.) Maybe I got a lemon? I did hear that the year after I purchased, the manufacturing location changed, as did many specific parts of the machine.
I've talked numerous times with the company, and they were always responsive and friendly, however, their solution to the "problem" they sold me, is for me to rig fixes on my time and nickel. At this point, I've little else I CAN do.
Hi Mack,
Thanks for the in-depth review of your MM. I will take a close look at it before making my decision.
Chris
Hi Sialia,
Just to chip in and add to your confusion - I purchased the Steel City 18" saw last month. I haven't tried to resaw anything yet but I have done a lot of ripping in 1" stock.
I've found the fit & finish to be first rate. The dust pickup is excellent (no dust inside the saw at all). I haven't been able to slow the motor down no matter how fast I feed the stock. It comes with a good fence. There are lots of easily accessible adjustment points, even a set of set screws to align the guide post. I like the ball bearing blade guides and the quick release tension lever.
Perhaps it's the upgrade from a Craftsman 12", but I feel like I've gone from a Volkswagon to a Cadillac. Color me happy with my new saw.
Good luck with your search.
I have had te SC 18" for about 16 months, and I think it is well made, well designed and it has a 5 year warranty. You can spend a lot more, not sure that you will get much more for your $$$ (perhaps a personal Xmas card from Catherine Laguna).Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I also have the SC 18" BS and I was resawing some 10" Mesquite with it just a few weeks ago. Sliced it like butter. Perfect fit and finish. Last Band Saw I'll ever need.
Scotty - also a hobbiest.
I'll be visiting Woodcraft to check it out.
Good morning Sialia... I would make a suggestion, but from some of the other comments already made, you can probably figure out which saw I prefer. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
So.. in lieu of a suggestion... I will just say good luck with whatever you chose.
Sarge..
Hi Sarge,
Yes, I think, after reading your very well-written review of the SC BS, that I know which one you would recommend. I will check it out.
One question that I have not yet asked that is bothering me is this. Laguna makes a big deal about their guides and after looking at them, they do look really good. they are the only ones who have these guides. Any thoughts about how valuable these guides really are. And if they are that good, the extra cost may be warranted, especially since the saw seems to be so well regarded.
Thanks,
Chris
I have a Laguna LT16. It is a great saw. The guide blocks are what made me make the purchase. Laguna, IMO is over priced. Grizzly would have been my second choice.
Good luck.
You state that the Laguna is a great saw and also that it's overpriced. Is it worth what it costs?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
In short, yes.
I am very happy with the saw. As someone else has stated, you get what you pay for.
The upside (1) Ceramic guide blocks. (2) 2hp baldor motor ( 110volts) or 3hp baldor motor (110/220 volts ).
The down side is the 1" blade that came with the saw sucks. Within two weeks I replaced it with a timber wolf.
I have the 3hp and it has done everything I have asked.
Knowing now what I know, I would make the same choice.
Hope this helps.
BTW the tilt on the table is -15 to +45.
Edited 4/25/2008 1:04 pm by Boogalee
I can't give you any data on the ceramic guides, Sialia. I have seen them in action, but have never made a cut with them personally. They seem to be well liked. I actually like the Laguna BS and was considering a purchase 2 years ago. I requested a pamphlet and DVD they had about it. I received that pamphlet and DVD about 5 months latter.
The main thing that turned me off about them was the salesman bad mouthing the competition. He also bull-shot me thinking I was a dumb country bumpkin from Georgia I suppose? He flat told some lies about the competitors (MM) machine. I did not call him on them.. I just let him go on and dig the hole deeper which he did.
Good machines... I have been around car salesmen off and on for 38 years.. I don't want to talk to one when trying to purchase a $2000 + BS. It just turned me off and that was the end of that.
Good luck...
Sarge..
Sarge,
I don't like to be oversold either; badmouthing competition really turns me off; and when someone looks down on me, I get upset. So I understand your points.
I have spoken with a salesman at Laguna who seems pretty good - not too pushy and has not badmouthed the competition.
I am still not convinced that I am really worth a great saw. At my core, I love value, and although i am convinced that the top saws are better, I don't know that I will really benefit from the marginal difference. We'll just have to see.
On a different point, I called Grizzly today and they confirmed that the g05132x has a left tilt of 5 degrees. I really can't remember. When cutting dovetails, don't I need 7 degrees or more?
Thanks,
Chris
DT's usually range from 5 degrees to 8 on average even though I have seen some 14 degrees. I cut mine by hand and just eyeball the set-up on the bevel.
BTW.. unless you really do some re-saw.. you would probably not need the large Italian BS's. They have difficulty with under 1/2" blades with such large bearings... so they are not a gift from Heaven with normal curve cutting. Any BS will curve cut regardless of size.. but the mid sizes will give you enough tension and power the handle the re-saw also. I admitted that to myself and withdrew a deposit on a MM-16. Got the SC after much research and don't regret that decision.
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
Wen you say midsize, and I think you purchased a SC 18 inch saw, what size saws are you recommending against? The SC 18 looks pretty big to me. The saws on my list are MM16, Laguna 14 or possibly 16, Grizzly 17 or 14 and SC 18, right now. I may have missed one but I think that's the list.
Thanks for your help,
Chris
"What sizes are you recommending against"? ... Chris
I'm not recommending against any size considering that at most you will use the saw 10 hours a week. But.. those ten hours did include re-saw.. ripping and curves. Curves can be cut on even a small band-saw. When I got my SC for re-saw and ripping, I kept my Jet 12" for curves and fine detail work as I cut plastics often also. That has turned out to be an excellent move on my part as I don't have to change blades.
But.. even though you are limited in time, it depends where your limits are with re-saw and ripping. Those requirements take you from small BS to mid-size. Normally I would rate a 14 with under 2 HP as small.. but the Griz has been "tricked out" or "hot-dogged" to squeeze it into a lower rung of the mid-sizes.
They've upped the ante by adding more HP and 10" re-saw. Now.. that might be all you need? But.. there are a couple of other things to consider being: what if you decide to sell it down the road and what if you get more hours.. get more serious and tackle larger things than time allows?
At that point you are pushing "red-line" IMO with the 14" and will have a harder time re-selling. That saw is $995 and that's not bad. But.. their 17" has 2 HP.. 12" re-saw instead of 10".. cast iron trunnions.. a larger table and double 4" dust ports which relates to more capable.. better re-sell value if it comes to that and all for $1049 which is $55 more than the "hot-dog" 14".
So... if I were making a decision, common sense would over-ride "hot reviews" by someone that is not stuck with the saw forever or will not be concerned with re-sale value. A spade is a spade and in this case you are the spade that has to make the best decision you can. You can flip-flop back and forth forever as something better could be released by some manufacturer tomorrow?
But.. if you need a saw now... just use your common sense and match up what will fit your needs today.. tomorrow and in case you decide to abandon ship at some point to take up crochet! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Hope that helps...
Sarge..
Sarge,
You make several smart arguments - all of which are helpful.
In business, I always plan for the future and try to do this in my woodworking as well. Several years ago, I had a full woodshop that I sold when I had to go out of the country for while. When fitting out that shop, I bought better and better tools with each purchase. I committed to myself that I would buy excellent tools when I had my next shop.
I am just now able to put a shop back together. I have started with festools handtools, along with my own chisels, planes, saws; etc. that went to storage. I have decided that the first tool I buy will be a bandsaw for several reasons, not the least of which is that as I have gotten a little older, I have cut myself with tools that didn't seem to represent a problem in the past. Safety has become a big concern. Combine this with limited room, and the bandsaw seems like a good first choice. Of course, there are many other good reasons that a bandsaw is an important tool.
I thought it would be a relatively quick decision - not quite. But the help I have gotten here has been really valuable.
Although I have not finalized a short list, it currently consists of: Grizzly 513x2; MM 16, Laguna 14 or 16, SC 18 and possibly the grizzly 14 inch g0457. Still a long list, but manageable.
I think the larger resaw capability, larger table size and larger motors of these saws will be well worth the expense. The griz 17 inch seems like a great value, especially when you consider everything that comes with it.
thanks, Chris
<"thinking I was a dumb country bumpkin from Georgia">Well Sarge, at least he got the Georgia part right...GlauconIf you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Edited 4/24/2008 9:36 am ET by Glaucon
He probably got the "country bumpkin" right also.. but he assumed it without me getting a "trial by jury" which most likely would render the verdict of "guilty" your honor... and we suggest putting the "boy" under the jail for the safety of the general public. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Fortunately, New Yorkers such as myself are far too polite, soft spoken and patient for such offenses...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Maybe up-state, but if you're from Brooklyn... the dumb country bumpkin may not be as dumb as he might appear in your rear-view mirror. I know better! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 4/25/2008 1:03 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Regarding those very cool "Cool Blocks"; they do look real neat but ask yourself why all the other bandsaw mfg's don't have their own version by now.
IMHO the best material for a bandsaw guide BLOCK (actual block, not a bearing) is Lignum Vitae. An old guy at a place (now regretably gone) in Anacortes, WA called Flounder Bay Boat Lumber told me of the virtues of Lignum Vitae years ago. Along with stern bearings for boats that will outlast a diesel engine it makes a terrific bandsaw guide block. Its' natural oiliness is an attribute not available with steel or ceramics. They last a LONG, LONG TIME and just a small piece of wood can make several sets. You can run a very narrow blade right into the guide with no ill effects and they are just way cool(er) than ''Cool Blocks".
I had them on my old POS Taiwan saw and they were the only good part of the whole unit!!
The discussion of "Block vs. Bearings" is at least a six pack discussion and I won't get into that as my MM has the bearings and I'm happy with them (for now). LOL
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
thanks mack, I will drink that six-pack with you anytime you want! I am a sailor and my cardinal rule is: the boat must be anchored or docked by 4:30 - that's happy hour time.
The reason that other makers don't have them is that they are patented, but you can buy ceramic guides for many of the other brands of large saws from Laguna, and several catalogs carry the ceramic guides for smaller machines.John White
If "several catalogs" offer them then I would guess that those other than Laguna are making them.
I don't really have anything against them; it's just that it seems like a glitzy gimmick to me. Their claim to fame seems to be that they are cool and supportive. I think that can be accomplished very simply AND inexpensively with Lignum Vitae blocks.
I have nothing against a company making money with a cool new gadget but if it's just a gadget that offers nothing really new, I don't want it to be my money. MHO and .02W.
Regards,
Mack "WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Mack,The patents and production are controlled by a small company that developed the technology, they seem to have a deal with Laguna for supplying the aftermarket guides for the Euro style saws. That deal may preclude selling the guides directly to any of Laguna's competitors but I don't know this for sure. So far as I know all the guides, no matter where they are being sold, are being made by that one company.As to the technology, I have used every type of guide made and I feel that the ceramics are far superior to every other style. Basically you set them and forget them, there is zero wear and they have no problems with dust and resin build up. They will wreck the teeth if you set them wrong, but that is operator error, not a fault of the guides. I used to be a fan of wooden blocks for most applications, and still recommend them for small blades, but for 3/8" blades and larger my first choice would be ceramic. I have found that any hardwood block with a few drops of light oil soaked into the end grain work about as well as using lignum vitae.John White
I think I posted once.. Purpleheart wood works great also! Broke a casting for thr lower ball bearing guides ans used for the lower guides for about one year! Worked great!
Edited 5/13/2008 2:09 am by WillGeorge
Hello,
I have a laguna lt16 and love it. However, I am saving $ to buy a grizzly G0555X for mainly smaller stuff. I plan to leave to the Lt 16 set up for resaw with a carbide blade. I like to do bandsaw boxes with 1/4 to 1/16 blades and don't want to keep changing blades. I have the adapter to use the 1/16 or 1/8 blades for the LT16 and find them a hassle to change the guides back and forth.
10fingers
"First, I only have a few hours a week,at most, to enjoy woodworking and will probably never be able to do more than 10 hours a week – even when retired."
Since you do not intend to spend much time in your shop, how many hours of actual use will your bandsaw get?
If money is no object, by all means get the Laguna or the Minimax, but wouldn't a good mid-range saw be more practical? Sarge's well-informed analysis of the Steel City would put it top of my list were I in your position.
Hastings
Hastings, good point. And value is definitely important to me. However, having said that, I have heard nothing but good things about the Grizzly's. For what I plan to do, as you rightly point out, which is to use the saw much less than a professional or really active hobbyist would, then the Grizzly might possibly be a good choice over the SC 18.
Since i do not see a way to respond generically to the thread, I will do so here and hope that's acceptable to everyone. Please advise me about the best way to do this for the future.
i wanted to thank everyone sincerely for the help on this topic. I have posted questions on this forum before and have always gotten exceptionally well informed and balanced responces that are profoundly helpful. So thank you - everyone.
When I make a decision - seems like it may take me a little longer than anticipated especially if I decide to spend the big bucks - I will definitely post my choice.
Edited 4/24/2008 3:56 pm ET by gofigure57
Edited 4/24/2008 3:58 pm ET by gofigure57
i agree, there's a lot of great information here. And if I become convinced that the extra cost is worth the money, I will save up and get the better saw. Right now, though, I have heard a lot of positive comments about a lot of saws, including the grizzly. So, although the top-of-the-line saws may be better, I just have not gotten myself comfortable yet that the extra money is money well spent - although I recognize that I may have to take some of this on faith.
I did visit Woodcraft tonight to see the SC saws. Very nice and very big. They did not have the 16 inch but i looked over the 18 inch. It seemed to big for my little shop. And after looking at it , I think a 14 inch with 10 inch resaw capacity is probably big enough.
having said all this, I sent for literature from Minimax today and a representative called - I will ask a lot of questions tomorrow.
Finally, and i have mentioned this before, unless I find information to the contrary, I will need a saw that can tilt left 8 degrees or more. I think the MM is 5 degrees and so is the Grizzly 17 inch extreme. So these will probably not make the cut.
Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses.
Chris
Chris,
Be careful saying that the 16" and 18" bandsaws look too big. They're like jointers - no matter how big yours is, you always want a bigger one. I started with a 3/4HP Delta 14" bandsaw and quickly upgraded to a 1HP General 14" with riser block. Now I want a bigger, more powerful saw. I'd recommend atleast 1-1/2HP. Remember: bigger is better (as long as it will fit into your shop!)Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
I agree. The "bigger is better" statement applies to a lot of things, including the obvious. As a sailor, I like to be in the biggest boat possible when out on the ocean. When the wind really blows - Bigger is Better!
I have not given up on any particular saw brand or saw size. Still trying to get my hands around this. Like you, I started with the Delta and had a 3/4 hp motor. Learning to resaw took a while and I did feel limited by the power of the motor. After I found the woodslicer blade, it got better but I did not think that the saw could manage anything over 6 inches so I never bought the riser blocks. Given that, I will definitely get a saw that has a larger motor - 1 1/2 hp or better - and that can resaw at least ten inches.
I think I will eliminate the saws that tilt left less than 8 degrees. I am looking forward to speaking with the Minimax rep today, but it looks like their saw tilts left only 5 degrees. If so, and unless I fgirure out a fix here, it may be off the list too.
Of course, I typically cut dovetails by hand so it may be that I eliminate a good saw for something that won't be that important in the future. On the other hand, like i keep telling my 15 year old son, keep all of you options open. Meaning, I may want the 8 degree tilt later so why not make sure this is available.
Thanks for the input.
Chris
Chris,
Remember that when you tilt your bandsaw table to the left, you will likely have to remove or disengage whatever stop system is in place to stop the table at 90 degrees. This means that you would have to check your table-blade relation each time you tilt your table left. You gotta do what you gotta do.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Good point - and i have probably placed too much value on the ability to cut dovetails using the tilting table method. I can always make a jig for the table instead of tilting the table itself.
I like that Laguna - but the grizzly seems to get good reviews here and is about half price (with more extras). That might be worth the risk.
There are a lot of really good saws on the market right now - I think I will be OK with any of the ones I am looking at.
Chris
Hi Sialia:
Back to your original question.
I was in your position a few weeks ago, trying to decided which bandsaw to guy. I had pretty much made up my mind on a Grizzly G0513x2 when I talked to a friend of mine who is a high end furniture maker.
He gave me the best peice of advice which really made me very comfortable with my buying decision. He told me to find someone who has the bandsaw I want and to try it out. So I called Grizzly and they were quite willing to give me a local name. I called him up and was able to see the saw in person and run some boards through it. It convinced me that it was the right saw for me.
So when you narrow your choice down, my advice to you is: FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS THAT SAW AND TRY IT OUT.
Good Luck and be safe,
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
Good Advice. I will call my short list of bandsaws, when I get it, and try to use the saws before purchasing.
Glad to hear you like your new saw. It looks great and I have seen only good comments about Grizzly saws. Seems like a great choice.
You have probably read my concern about cutting dovetails on a bandsaw - the 17 inch you chose only tilts 5 degrees left according to Grizzly. Any chance you can take a look at your saw and confrim?
Thanks,
Chris
Hi: SialiaNo the Grizzly tilts 10 degrees left and 45 right. If you want more it's easy to make a jig. You'll want a jig anyway to control your spacing between dovetails. But more importantly try the saw before buying -- even a great saw may not be the right height for you or some other reason. Since dovetails are important for you -- make some.Hope you find the right saw!Good luck and be safe,
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
Thank you for checking your saw. Here's why I have been confused about the left tilt on the saw. http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2008/Main/97
In addition to this, a griz rep confirmed the 5 degree left tilt.
I know I am missing something - I just cannot figure out what it is. Any ideas?
Anyway, given this feature, the saw is back on my list. So thanks.
Chris
sialia,
Just wanted to point out a couple of things that may be obvious to you or maybe not. First, regardless what you spend for a bandsaw, you'll probably recoup your money in five years. The prices are going up, whether you invest $500 or $2000, you can probably get back what you paid in five years.Second, on paper, the key differences in bandsaws can be attributed to the overall size, cast iron wheels and motor size/quality. When i compared the 16" jet with the 16" MM its was like a chevy verses a hummer....not even close.Third, most here are happy with their 14" bandsaw. Many keep their 14" when they get bigger bandsaws.The 17" grizzly has been regarded highly here for years. Ir seems the less heavy duty model has the 10 degree swing. I wonder if the second dust port on the super duper model restricts the tilt?
Hi BC,
Yes, I definitely agree that cost is not necessarily related to value. Often times, spending the extra money, although tough to swallow in the first place, is well rewarded over the years.
There's also a skill issue. Better work can be done more easily with good tools. So, on the one hand, I might argue that I don't deserve the best available, i recognize that someone, like me, who may not have a lot of time to use tools, will enjoy (defined do better work with less cussing) a better saw and get great value.
Also, I don't have a big workspace so two saws is out of the question - now and likely into the future. Better to pick a good one that meets all of my needs now.
I am coming around to the idea of spending money for a good saw - it takes time!
Thanks for the input.
Chris
sialia, I have read this whole thread and have been researching a new BS for the last year and for my desires and requirements, which may or may not be someone else's, I have decided to get the Grizzly G0514X2. It has a lot of extra features the G0513 doesn't have like the foot brake, geared rack and pinion tilt, the internationally famous Bear Head balanced cast iron wheels, and 19" X 26 3/4" table. You haven't said if you have ordered your saw and what you ordered. When I ordered my 0514X2 yesterday I found out that it has been back ordered til 6/20 but I will just have to wait. I am new to this list and have been reading the archives and see that there is a lot to offer on the FWW forums.
Hi Marauderer,
I have not yet ordered a machine. I am not in a huge rush and have decided that before I make my final decision, I will attempt to either use or at least see in person the short list of bandsaws that meet my criteria.
Minimax has provided me a local owner who is willing to demonstrate his MM16. Felder has a local owner who they say will let me try out his N4400, which is more like the Minimax E-16 and apparantly made in the same factory as the Laguna saws. One advantage of Hammer saws for me is that a distributor is located about 15 miles from my house - not transportation costs. The rep said that the N 4400 is the same model as the Laguna HD16 - it doesn't l look like that to me - it looks more like the laguna 16 - not the HD model. Any additional comments on this saw would be appreciated.
The Grizzly showroom is a bout 2 hours away and I plan to visit there to see the G0513x2 (and now the 514X2) before making a final decision.
I like the laguna saws, based on conversations with the company and comments made in this thread, but they seem to be priced relatively higher than the others. Before finalizing a decision, I will have to see who is willing to negotiate on adjusted price; i.e., who throws in which extras for free.
Good luck with your new bandsaw. From everything I have read about Grizzly, you cannot go wrong. I don't think I have seen even one negative comment.
I will post my decision when I make it - I bet it's not until June, however.
Chris
If you are not in a hurry, Laguna has sales on various models throughout the year. I don't know when the 16HD was last on sale. I saw it early last year for $2195 including five blades, and the mobility kit. If you are into resawing, look at the Driftmaster fence.I liked the design of the LT16HD over the others in the same class — Baldor motors, ceramic guides and the Driftmaster fence upgrade.With the way the economy is, I would hope that they would work with you on the accessories.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
When I bought my Laguna (LT-16HD) they threw in 3 blades, one of which was a 1 1/4" Resaw King ($200+ blade) plus free shipping ($300). Let them know you are seriously considering other makers and that the terms of the deal will be a deciding factor and not just the quality of the machine since all the machines under consideration are of a similar quality. Make them work to make the sale.
It was a tough decision so thank you to everyone here for the great input and advice.
I placed my order for a Minimax E16 bandsaw last week. It came down to four manufacturers: Felder, Minimax, Laguna and Grizzly. I was able to see the minimax MM16 in a home shop referred to me by Minimax and speak with an owner of the E16. I also visited the Wilmington, DE Felder office and saw the N4400. Grizzly supplied two mailing addresses within 1.5 hours of my house (no phone or email - and I did not follow up with snailmail) and Laguna was unable to find an owner close by, so I did not see machines from either manufacturer. laguna does have a show in Richmond in June and I had planned to see their saws there.
In reading through the comments on this site, I thought the quality of all the machines I was looking at was similar. However, I did favor the Italian built machines over the Taiwanese machines and was a little suspicious of the Bulgarian made Laguna - this is purely a feeling and really played very little in my decision.
In the end, minimax came through with a great price and threw in a miter gauge. The mobility kit is standard as is the footbrake with micro switch. They also reduced shipping costs; the E16 won out.
Grizzly does not offer a footbrake with micro switch on their 17 inch model and neither does the N440. The N4400 was the most expensive of the bunch - but has the largest motor.
To make my decision, I compared the bandsaws head-to-head on a spreadsheet. I priced out the options and used ordinal values for things like euro-mobility kits versus standard after-market mobility kits. This method gave me a final delivered price and a relative ranking for each machine. Obviously, many of the rankings were based on my personal perceived value of the item.
I was impressed with all of the people I dealt with at all four companies and felt like any of the machines would have been a good purchase.
I am having an electrician run a 220 line to my garage - this week - and should be up and running this weekend.
Thanks again!
you might look at the new steelcity 14" bandsaw though woodcraft.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled