Replies

1. 
   Biscardi | Nov 23, 2004 12:51am | #1

   Put five coats on and you will see the amber glow from the orange shellac.

   Orange shellac over walnut gives  a warm, period look to pieces. Blond shellac over orang eshellac add depth to the glow. Play around with some scrap and I think you will see where it works best for you.

    

   Frank

2. 
   forestgirl | Nov 23, 2004 01:40am | #2

   Another tip:  make sure you're not using fluorescent lights to check the color.  Most of them tend to yellow things up, making color hard to judge.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   lwj2 | Nov 23, 2004 07:47am | #3

   FYI, spectroscopically, fluorescent lights have a huge spike in the green portion of the spectrum, it's why photogs use a special filter when shooting under fluorescents.While you can't see it, it most definitely affects colour as perceived.Leon Jester, Roanoke VA

1. 
   jackplane | Nov 23, 2004 05:42pm | #4

   you're correct about standard florescence. However, the flor. tubes we use at work cost about $30 each, and they alternate between a blue and a red cast, depending on the tube, which renders a  very accurate color spectrum. Useful in a paint booth.

3. 
   zendo | Nov 24, 2004 06:08am | #5

   Im not a regular here but I thought I would drop a note about shellac.  Although it may sound funny this is true.  Shellac is found in trees in Southeast Asia and India and is deposited by the Lac bug.   The substance is like a resin, but is the protective cocoon for lac bug eggs. When the bugs hatch the cocoon is left and is harvested by natives.  The amber color in shellac is actually the ectoskeleton and remains of some of the bugs that didnt hatch.  The clear varieties have been strained and bleeched to remove the amber particles.  The clear or inbetween types may have traces of chlorine because of this process. The product is overall pretty safe because its thinner or solvent is denatured alcohol, this is also why it dries so fast.  Another neat thing about it is that if it is scratched on a surface it will pretty much melt into itself if a bit more is applied.  Its not great for high moisture, but it has covered centuries of violins and other instruments of the like.

   As for bones question about the difference, stir well, and blonde may be an inbetween not a clear from that brand.  They both will work the same, there also is a white that has some pigment all of which stop tannin from coming through finish and paint.  Shellac can be used between, above or below any oil or waterbased layer.

   -the professor

    

1. 
   bones | Nov 24, 2004 06:38am | #6

   Hey Prof, will water based dyes work on oak if you put one coat of 2lb on first?

1. 
   zendo | Nov 24, 2004 04:33pm | #7

   I dont have a ton of experience in that department but...

   Water based dye comes in 2 types.  One type the solvent is water or you mix the dye with water to create it.  The other (NGR) or non grain raising, is a  water soluable dye in a solvent that dries quicker than water, like Glycol Ether, its less safe but the grain doesnt raise as much.  Why I am telling you this is that if you are using a NGR dye, it is thinned with alcohol or laq thinner,  this will conflict with shellac and strip it, even worse partially strip it. 

   Water dye is different then pigment dye in that it actually stains the fibers of the wood. Pigment dye is particles that are left in the pores of the wood between the fibers.  

   If you have already shellaced the wood, you have created a barrier to the wood from the outside.  I dont think the water based dye will penetrate the wood fibers.  It probably will just bead up on the surface.  Shellac is very forgiving and you can strip it with alcohol.  If you havent already done it and you want to see, just like wood working or anything of the sort, run a test on a scrap piece. Taking the time to experiment saves tons in the long run, and thats where we come up with truly new things.

   professor

    

    

    

2. 
   zendo | Nov 24, 2004 05:20pm | #8

   Bones, I had another thought.

   As long as your solvents are different you shouldnt have a problem with damaging a previous layer.  So with that, and the nature of pigmented stain, if the pores in the oak still look fairly open a pigmented stain may still work on your shellac but remember your final look will be the enhancement of the pores and markings in the wood it wont subdue or even them out like a water based will. Always imagine your final result and work backwards. 

    The shellac will inhibit the amount that the pigmented stain will deposit but it should be pretty even.  Again, run a test to verify...even though there is no such thing as scrap oak.

   Edited 11/24/2004 9:23 am ET by zendo

1. 
   bones | Nov 24, 2004 06:45pm | #9

   Thanks for the information. I have not done anything yet. Finishing is an area I want to learn more about. Up until now, my idea of finishing was minwax liquid stain and spray poly or spray spar. I bought some shellac flakes & alcohol mix and made up some blond and orange.  I bought some powdered dye (water based) to try instead of stain. I will play with scrap and get the look I want prior to using on a good piece. I had hoped that a single coat of shellac would help the dye go on even and avoid splotching. The piece is plywood with oak trim.  I will have to play and see how it goes. Its only scrap so no harm. 

1. 
   zendo | Nov 24, 2004 07:42pm | #10

   as long as the wood has fairly even grain, the stain should be consistant.  If water based stain splotches its because it wasnt wet enough on the first coat, usually people who are worried act timid toward the wood.  You can fix it by recoating and letting it set longer before removing the excess.  If it is pigmented stain and is splotchy, its because it isnt evenly applied (not filling the pores) or there is a glaze of excess on the surface that wasnt removed well.

   The only other reason you may have markings is if the sanding or bump marks are uneven.  Like the pores, pigmented will show these up more and dye less. 

   So with your water dye- put a wet coat and keep a wet edge as even as possible let it set a bit then remove the excess- try not to stress it gets easier.

   Edited 11/24/2004 11:48 am ET by zendo

2. 
   bones | Nov 24, 2004 08:52pm | #11

   Thanks. It is for a router table no big deal if id does not turn out right. Just want to try something new and tax the brain cells.