If you could build and sell period furniture anywhere in the US and you don’t want to spend more than $400,000 on a 2,500 ft house with space to have a shop, where would it be? And why would you select this city
Serious question, as I am finishing an executive assignment in September and it is time to slow down.
I’m thinking East, perhaps Delaware?
Replies
I guess it would depend on your business plan. Furniture making, period or otherwise is a very difficult business to survive on, even more so in this economy. It's not so difficult for the knowledgeable and affluent buyers of fine furniture but it is for the rest of us just putting food on the table and paying increasing bills.
In a pipe dream situation, where I would envision myself as a sole proprietor, store front cabinet shop, I would be thinking historic resort towns. Places like Lewes, Cape May Delaware. An area that attracts tourists from all over, has a historic village center, quaint buildings and an atmosphere that is concurrent with something like period furniture.
I just returned from a trip to Winterthur for the Point to Point horse race and show. We also did a couple of tours of the mansion and furniture collections. There is a wonderful exhibition of southern Massachusetts furniture on display, Home and Harbor. The area around Chad's Ford is another that fits in with period furniture but is rather expensive and there is stiff competition.
Areas like Baltimore or Alexandria would be considerations but they are expensive. I like the shore areas of Massachusetts, Rockport, Cohassett, Cape Cod. Also Newport, Rhode Island. I like New England, the life style, the history. Portsmouth, New Hampshire would be on the top of my list. There is no state income tax in NH. Places like Kennebunkport, Maine are nice but Maine's taxes and cost of living are a killer.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Take a look at Berkshire County in western Mass.
Lots of tourists and a woodworkers group.
ASK
Seems to me the first question is how are you going to sell your product. Connect up with interior designers? Consignment houses? Boutique furnitue stores? Ebay?
The second question is do you see your business based on commission work or are you going to build something of your design and then find a buyer?
Finally, are you doing this as a way for paying for your hobby or are you expecting to make a living at it?
Based on the above you can decide if you need to be located near your market or whether you can just decide where you want to live.
The suggestion of the Berkshires sounds like a good one. It's a nice life style area and you are within a couple hours of Boston and CT suburbs of NYC. Land and housing is not outlandish.
Good luck.
Willie,
Selling fine furniture is almost never a walk in trade, so location doesn't matter. Unless you are in a major metropolitan area you will have to find customers all over a region if not all over the world.
My advice would be to set yourself up in a shop and lifestyle that has low overhead and then advertise in venues that reach people who have high incomes. I'd also suggest participating in top craft shows to get your work seen by the very limited number of people who can afford and want the type of furniture you wish to make. I suspect that there aren't more than a few thousand families in the entire U.S. that budget for custom made period furniture.
Unless you get lucky early on it will take you several years to get to a point where you can make even a modest living off of your profession, plan on making your cash last as long as possible.
John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine 1998-2006
That's a tough question. $400,000 for a 2,500SF house with space for a reasonable shop seems low for most areas that would have a significant population of folks able to afford finer period furniture. So, as others have suggested, I think success will depend on your business plan being workable.
Although living in a low-overhead region is sound advice, that also needs to be balanced with other issues like materials availability. For example, when I retired a few years ago, I moved to New Mexico, partly for the low overhead and affordable real estate. Unfortunately, there's not much available locally in terms of quality wood, however.
I once read a question on a woodworking forum, about what you would do if you won the lottery. I said I would move to an affluent East Coast Town and open a woodshop/store front. Since I never play the lottery, it is highly unlikely this will happen, but I think it may give you an idea of how expensive it would be. Period furniture making is fun, but it is a lousy way to make a living. I can just barely do it and I live with very little overhead and in an area where the cost of living is fairly low. Some of my customers tell me about their property taxes, car insurance etc. and I wonder how anyone can live in some of these areas (NJ, Mass, Maryland). Wood and hardware can be shipped in and furniture out, so where you are at has little to do with sales.
Rob Millardhttp://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Edited 5/7/2009 7:11 pm ET by RMillard
All
Thanks for the input and thanks for bringing me back to reality, wise words in this thread. I will be closing down a large food manufacturing operation and let about 2,000 people go by the end of September. These jobs pay well, but the politics and the pressure takes a lot out of life. Not sure if I want to do this again.
I have a super place which was built new, with a new 700 ft workshop, problem is that I have probably spent a total of nine weeks home the past three years. Last visit was hanging the last pieces of ducting, next will be shop cabinets.
JohnWW, I have often thought about sales the way you describe it in this industry, one would probably have to connect well with a number of sales reps as well, and negotiate commission. I can see a fantastic fun hobby change rapidly into hard business.
Rob Millard, I think you are just being modest, with your skills I am sure you are making a fortune. :-)
Sigh, for now I shall stick to a hobby, we will see what comes up next.
Everyone, thanks for your input.
I have nothing constructive to contribute but I would like to say: Nice work on your armoire ! Does me good to gaze upon it !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Willie:I don't know anything about marketing furniture, but as to your price point -- look at Dallas and Ft Worth. In the undeveloped areas only an hour from the airport and 45 minutes from downtown you can get a house of that size plus garage along with a few acres and a barn. We never had the housing price explosion that the coastal cities did.
Some of my customers tell me about their property taxes, car insurance etc. and I wonder how anyone can live in some of these areas (NJ, Mass, Maryland). Wood and hardware can be shipped in and furniture out, so where you are at has little to do with sales.
Rob there is some sage advise in your reply and I don't disagree ... entirely.
Here in NC, we have had a big furniture industry with companies producing tons of furniture at low prices for a long time. Recently, its all spooled down and gone off shore. You might think people are hungry for some good olde American about now?? Folks are still looking for that windsor chair for 35 bucks. That is a tough sell.
My advice to a furniture builder looking to "make the jump" to pro is to go at it part-time. Keep your day time job and build furniture for a year maybe two for sale purposes. Don't build to put it upstairs. After 2 years you'll have a feel for the business or you'll make adjustments.
In my case, I build chairs to finance my love of building rifles --to sell. People are sitting down a whole lot more than they are shooting targets. After 20 years, I can go to the bank on that. It ain't easy or everybody would be doin' it.
dan
Dan,
I was fortunate, in that I had a production job in a machine shop that paid very well and as long as I got X number of parts made a month I could come and go as I pleased. This gave me the freedom to refine the woodworking skills and get the furniture to the point where it could be sold (I made some real duds at first). I did both for a while and then the machine shop job started to get in the way and I quit, but that took 3 years.
What kind of rifles do you build? I like anything with trigger!
Rob Millard
Only blackpowder stuff. I don't make the barrels but I try to make most of the other stuff. These days, I am buying the flintlocks as kits and making the locks to my liking.
The hunt for wood and the creativity is fun. If you have a moment, look up Larry Garndner. His website is artandarms.net
dan
Edited 5/8/2009 9:14 pm ET by danmart
Edited 5/9/2009 6:59 am ET by danmart
I'm going to engage in something I dislike and that is thread drift.
Very nice. I could probably make the stock, but the lock- no way. Did you ever see the Williamsburg video narrated by David Brinkley and William Devane, made c. 1969? I have wanted to make a rifle since getting the 1980 Dixie Gun Works catalog; 29 years and counting. I have a stack of photos I have cut out over the years to serve as design ideas, but there is one with an eagle motif to the patch box that captures my imagination the most.
The address you gave should end in .net, but I found it anyway. Really impressive work, especially the engraving.
Rob Millard
Did you ever see the Williamsburg video narrated by David Brinkley and William Devane, made c. 1969?
Yes I have it and look at it again and again. I have come to know Wallace Gusler and that has been a very rich experience. Wallace has 2 dvd's out(carving and engraving) that are just great. American Pioneer Videos puts it out. If you ever want to see them, let me know - you pay the postage they will be there. A couple other guys on Knots have borrowed them and the feedback was as expected.
there is one with an eagle motif to the patch box that captures my imagination the most.
I have attached a famous eagle patchbox designed by another builder. It might be the one you have in mind?? This is not your started PB. Brass,german silver, wire inlay and small hinges on a curved hinge.
Building the lock these days is not standing at the forge and hammer welding. When I do build a lock from the ground up-- I have lots of time. As I have aged, working at the anvil has decreased. Hours of pounding hurts the next day. These days, you can buy the parts and "customize" the lock to your school/period. The geometry is in place so the success is high with a little attention-to-detail. If you get the bug, let me know. I have about 25 years of fooling with the stuff and I know most of the good suppliers and events.
The best gathering in my view happens in Kempton, PA on the last weekend in July at Chuck Dixon's farm. You can find info on the web if you search Dixon Gunmakers Fair. Its like going to a fudge store.. you'll be overwhelmed trying to take it in. Lots of talent out there. Truthfully, there have been years I brought a rifle up to brag about and seeing some others stuff I left it in the car the whole time. Really.
photos: eagle patchbox
Edited 5/8/2009 9:37 am ET by danmart
>thread driftsome of the computer geeks call it a rat hole. Drifting into a rat hole.The old guns are much more interesting than the rat hole about kilts and bike shorts. I say go for it.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Building period/ custom furniture can be very tough. I live in Texas, and altho our cost of living is no where near as high as the east coast, we run into the same problem. Available customers. I quit my day job in the automotive field (timing is everything), and started building furniture, but lately have gravitated towards doing cabinets to pay some of the bills.
There seems to be more of a demand for Mission/Stickly style furniture in my area. Which works out ok for me, as I love working with QSWO.
I was talking to a lumber supplier in New York last week, and they asked me if I still enjoyed woodworking for a living? Or had it lost its appeal because it was now a job?
I said YES, I am very satisfied it what I am doing, it basically came down to the quality of life, and I am so glad I chose this way.
Now about that lottery question, if I won, then I would have to move to hawaii, and build furniture out of Koa.
Rob,
Your answer to Willie's question..."I once read a question on a woodworking forum, about what you would do if you won the lottery. I said I would move to an affluent East Coast Town and open a woodshop/store front..." reminded me of something.
A farmer was asked what he would do if he was granted a million dollars. He said, "I'd buy me a place and keep farming it until the money was gone..."
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
>not much available locally in terms of quality wood, however.RalphBarker,Keep these guys in mind; they are in southern Colorado. I hope they are not too far away from you.http://www.cswoods.com/rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Thanks. I had them bookmarked already. I'm in Rio Rancho, NM, just northwest of Albuquerque, so they are within a day's drive.
For example, when I retired a few years ago, I moved to New Mexico, partly for the low overhead and affordable real estate. Unfortunately, there's not much available locally in terms of quality wood, however.
I lived in Albuquerque(84-89). Loved it but furniture making for a living was mucho tough. Most of the stuff I did was transported up to Santa Fe and eventually found owners by way of shops. Tough deal. Most of the folks who really wanted big items were turned off by the shipping/trans costs.
Moving back to the east coast, the wood I use is easy to find. Period furniture seems to be a bit more popular here in the east in my experience.
dan
Edited 5/7/2009 10:04 pm ET by danmart
Edited 5/7/2009 10:04 pm ET by danmart
The least expensive place you can find an hour or so outside a large city like NY, LA, Chicago, etc.
Come to Illinois! Way down at the end of it. Nice folks there!
Willie,
I only have a passing knowledge of Delaware as my Son lives in Ardmore, PA and my wife's family in Media, PA. My interest, like yours, is low house prices and taxes...and easy access to a relatively good market between Phila. and Wash.
I don't build stuff to sell so I don't have first hand knowledge about the market in PA. area but, I'm very impressed with the huge number of large homes built around 1910 in that area. Lots of quality in those homes, and, like my son and his wife, are looking at a custom piece for the living room that fits the character of the house.
On the other hand, you may want to consider an alternative that provides for a back up plan...a little farming of specialty items.
My suggestion is to look for a place that is reasonably close to people with money, they usually are busy and will pay for ease of purchase:) I don't know much about the east coast (left coast if your facing south) If you want some suggestions for the west coast let me know.
Thanks and Good luck
Troy
Willie - I certainly don't do it professionally (that might change - getting work in the engineering field isn't easy unless your sub 35 years of age). However, I'll add the observation that at least for period american reproductions, most of the professional guys live in the Northeast - typically places like Vermont, New Hampshire, western Mass, etc... Obviously, they tend not to live in big population centers where the cost of living is very high.
There's also a fair contingent of professional makers living in the South (that means "southeastern" - no offense to those living in the SouthWest), but they're far fewer than those in the Northeast.
I can count on one hand the individuals I know of making a living on period colonial reproductions in the Western United States. There may be more, but it's pretty obvious from the membership roster of SAPFM, for example, that they're a small minority.
I suspect that has roots in both the cost of materials (the typical woods used in colonial and early 19th century repros are almost exclusively East coast), and the taste of the local populace. As I understand it, "cowboy" furniture is a lot more popular in the western United States, and having a local market is helpful to a furniture maker, particularly one just starting out.
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