My friend’s father has bought a Grizzly Ultimate band saw. He wants to do scroll sawing on it. He has bought some 1/16 wide band saw blades but they won’t work with the bearing guides.
Any suggestions?
BTW. I already asked why. He said because he wants to. I already have suggested a scroll saw…. no luck.
Len
Replies
Len,
The simplest approach is to pinch the blade between shop made hardwood blocks, possibly lubricated with a little oil, or for more money, but little improvement in performance, he could use cool blocks.
The blocks should be positioned so that the blade is at the mid point of the block's face, front to back. Lock one of the blocks in place, lightly touching the side of the blade. Then, while rotating the blade by hand, gently press the opposing block against the blade to create a seat in the face of each block for the teeth of the blade. Tighten the second block so that the blade is slightly pinched between the blocks, this will give the maximum support.
The thrust bearing should be lightly touching the blade even when the there is no cutting pressure against the teeth.
Carter makes a special upper guide assembly specifically for tiny blades, it is a single bearing with a small groove in its face that the blade rides in, I seem to recall reading that it works well.
Hope this helps, John W.
I have that saw and have used 1/8 inch blades with the roller guides. Made me switch to a 3/16 inch blade. I can't imagine a 1/16 inch blade. And I don't think you can replace the roller guides with blocks.
It is nice having that much power when sawing thick wood (I often make band saw boxes shaped like maps - and not just of Colorado.) But with a riser block the 1/8 inch blade is so flexible that you cannot back out of a cut without stopping. I can back out of most cuts with the 3/16 inch blade, so I just make multiple approaches.
________________________
Charlie Plesums Austin, Texas
http://www.plesums.com/wood
Len,
At the WW show in Springfield, MA they set up a 14" bandsaw with a thin blade like that and ran it with the new 'support' from Carter. I can't remember the name of the 'Support' but I do remember is cost around $75 bucks. It was like a V block that the back of the blade rested against...
Len,
Spaced that one right out, you did say roller guides didn't you.
So my advice won't work, it was based on the standard Grizzly bandsaw set up, not their roller bearing model.
One possible solution would be to replace the roller bearing upper guides with the standard guides used on all of the other Grizzly saws and then follow my suggestion for using wood blocks. I'm almost certain the block guides will fit right on the upper guide support bar, these saws all come out of the same factory with minor changes. If you call Grizzly they should be able to get the right parts for you and it shouldn't be very expensive.
You won't need lower guide blocks for scroll sawing, just back off the lower guides and let the blade run free under the table.
One thing to consider for scroll sawing with a bandsaw, on a scroll saw you can slip the blade through a hole in the stock to do inside cuts, you don't have this option with a bandsaw. To do an inside cut on a bandsaw you have to cut through the section you want to keep and then go back and glue the kerf after you are done. Some industrial weight bandsaws are set up with blade welders that allow the operator to pass a cut blade through an hole in the stock for doing a inside cut, but this isn't a home shop option.
John W.
Edited 3/25/2004 4:28 pm ET by JohnW
I've seen the new thin guide by carter and suggested he purchase a standard block guide. Since he's relatively new to woodworking but a PHD. in Physics. It's tough to argue with him.
Personally I would machine a new set of guides but I barely have time to sleep right now. I have crown molding to finish.
Thanks all for the advice.
Len
I have a 14" clone that has the Carter stabilizer for small blades and have the cool block adapter for my Laguna LT16. The Carter stabilizer is the way to go. I keep my 14" set up all the time with it and 1/16" blade. The stabilizer takes away some cutting height; I think I get 4 1/2" with it. Unless I need to scroll cut something really thick, I keep a 1/2" carbide blade on my Laguna. The 1/16 blades don't last too long if you cut really thick stuff, too many tpi in the wood. I bought a 100' roll of 1/16" blades to save money and solder them together to save money. It is really neat to be able to turn very sharply in wood.
I love my Grizzly G0555 band saw, which I believe is the one you referred to. It comes standard with roller guides, similar to (but not the same as) the very good after-market Carter guides.
My previous Delta and Jet bandsaws used cool blocks, and accepted the regular Carter roller guides, or the special Carter guide for thin blades, which seem to be part of most answers here. (I didn't have the Carter guides, but I did drool over them).
I don't see how I could mount the Carter guides on my Grizzly G0555 bandsaw. And someone trying to sell me Carter guides and a very thin blade at a woodworking show immediately switched to selling me a 3/16 inch blade when he learned which saw I had.
The many suggestions are good, but be sure that they apply to the particular saw in question. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie.. I have the 555 en route from Grizzly as we speak.. having ordered it on your recommendation.
Following strings on this forum I have learned of one problem with the BS and I wonder if you've experienced it.
It has to do with the guide bearings moving each time you raise or lower the blade support.. (the part that increases or reduces the amount of blade exposed when you make the cut.)
Also.. Grizzly warns that the driver will not off load the BS. How did you handle this issue? In my case, I'm hoping someone is home on my block to help me when it arrives.
Someone else on the string mentioned he was having trouble resawing with the 555. Have you ever had a problem.. and finally, I ordered the riser block and some say it comes without installation instructions.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill,
I bought the Grizzly G0555 w/ riser back in November and am very happy with it.
You will receive instructions for installing the riser.
What they may not send (unless they have taken recent suggestions from users) is instructions for adjusting the tension setting. You have to loosen a collar or two with an allen wrench and move them on the threaded shaft to get the tensioner to work right on a 105" blade.
There was a bunch of discussion here back in November on the details.
Regards,
Bill
I love the G0555 (having had a Delta and Jet in the previous year, that should be a complement). But it is scary - if you don't like your saw, what happens to me?
The trucking tariffs say no residential delivery, delivery only to the tailgate, etc. or horrible extra charges. I saw the driver's instructions and it said "no surcharge for residential delivery or for power tailgate." Since Grizzly doesn't advertise that, I suspect that they can't guarantee it everywhere, but they apparently have a deal, and that is the kind of service I have frequently heard.
My delivery was funny. I didn't expect it to arrive as early as Friday, so I went to work and didn't forward the phone. Got home at 6 pm with a message on the recorder from the driver at 9am. Called him, and he was just headed home, at a rest stop 10 minutes away. He offered to deliver it early Sunday morning when he was on his way fishing, but that wasn't convenient for me. And I am enough of a tool freak to not want to wait until Monday or Tuesday. So I convinced him to wait for me, and found him at the rest stop. He took it off the truck and helped load it into my minivan. Not a residential delivery but far above and beyond....
Incidentally, the driver got it off the truck alone, and I got it out of the van alone. Tip, slide, not lift and carry.
None of the three band saws that I have had kept perfect alignment of the guides when they are raised and lowered. But knowing that they can go off, keep an eye on it and it isn't a problem. But if they go off a lot, maybe the spring loaded ball that is in the clamp came out. If you install the riser block "logically" rather than following the directions the ball comes out, and is a bitch to get back in (after you finally find it). The second saw with the riser block, I read and followed the directions, and the ball stayed in. The directions didn't include how to adjust the tension but I figured it out, like the other response, and I have heard that Grizzly since fixed that part of the instructions.
I have resawed a lot of 3/4 inch (1 inch rough) into boxes and drawers that are almost half inch thick. Sure beats planing away so much wood, and cuts the cost of wood in half. I have also cut veneer at 1/16 inch or so (that seemed like bragging, so I just went out to the shop and measured some -- .031 inches, or about 1/32). The first thing you have to do is throw away the blade that comes with the saw (try a 1/2 inch timberwolf, 3 tpi), then do a good alignment, and go for it.
The riser block is something you put in once and never take out. Buy all your blades the longer length. But the block arrives a day or two after the saw, so if you set it up and play, fine, but don't spend a lot of time tuning it or getting better blades for the shorter length.
Good luck - work safely - and enjoy it!
________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie.. thanks very much for all the valuable information. It's Sunday morning and I'm off to church with the family.. but I'll respond more fully on monday,
One thing I'll tell you now.. I'll be returning blades to Grizzly. I ordered four blades with the saw.. none of them the proper length for the riser block.. just wasn't thinking.
Bill
Hey - you need to go to earlier church to leave more time for woodworking (we were back at about 8:30)!
I fought off Timberwolf blades for a long time - how could they be worth twice as much as all the others? Answer. They cut far straighter and smoother, and last 3 times as long.
If you have a specific requirement, match the blade to the job and wood. But if you want to have a few blades "just to get started" I recommend
3/16 inch with at least 12-14 or more teeth per inch, for fine work. 1/8 might be a tiny bit better, but is a little skittish in the roller guides that come with this saw. (The roller guides seem to be a big advantage in all other cases.)
1/4 inch about 10-15 teeth per inch - best all around blade. I know heavy bandsaw users who use this blade for everything.
1/2 inch blade for resawing. Theoretically you can use 3/4 inch blade on a 14 inch bandsaw, but the tension required is pretty high for a small machine. Few teeth per inch - one rule of thumb is to have 3-6 teeth in the wood, so if you are "resawing" 1 inch wood (not usually called resawing) you need 3-6 tpi blade. If you are resawing 6 inch wide wood, fewer tpi. My resaw blade is 1/2 inch 3 tpi - and I don't remember whether it was skip tooth or hook tooth, but either gives you more space between the teeth to remove the waste.
I have bought my Timberwolf blades from PS Wood or Woodcraft, but I hear they are available cheaper from Suffolk.
________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Hey, Charlie.. thanks again for the information and advice. My saw will be delivered between 8 and 10 tomorrow morning and I can hardle wait. I downloaded the manual from Grizzly last week and I've read it three or four times already to familiarize myself with the machine.
I appreciate your blade advice. As I mentioned, I ordered several blades I will have to return because I failed to take the riser block into consideration. It's just as well though because I want the higher quality blades you recommend. It's very useful to know which ones to buy and I plan to get those you mentioned.
Several other accounts I've read mention getting rid of the blade that comes with the saw so the ones I ordered from Grizzly are likely no better.
I'll let you know how it goes after I take delivery tomorrow and get started on this new (for me) woodworking adventure.
Thanks again, Charlie.
Bill
Bill,
I would suggest getting a book, or two, or a few good magazine articles, on tuning and using a bandsaw. The typical instruction manual that comes with a home shop machine is nearly useless for practical advice and occasionally they contain outright errors. The manuals certainly aren't nearly as complete as even a basic magazine article.
John W.
Charlie.. my BS arrived this morning and the driver helped me offload it onto my little rolling platform.
The GO555 now comes in one box. A big one. Heavy, too! After you open one end and remove the stand parts and BS.. you turn the box over.. open the other end and remove the fence parts box and table.
I was able to get only as far as assembling the stand because I have still not recieved the mobile base I ordered with the BS. I did attach the trunnion base and positive stop but am now on hold.
Everything looks good and I can't wait to continue with assembly and set up.
One thing I like about Grizzly is that they include only the exact number of bolts, nuts and washers needed for assembly. You're not left with a handful of assorted fasteners.. wondering where it was supposed to go.
I also have not recieved the riser block and have decided not to attach it until I need it.. and there's a fair chance I never will. Nice to know it's there, though.
I'll post again when I make some sawdust.
Thanks again, Charlie.
Bill
My saw also came in a single box, plus a separate shipment for the riser block.
If you have installed the trunions and fence, turn it on! You don't need the mobile base to use it. And it comes with a "throw away" blade that is good enough to play with until you get the riser block.
The riser block comes from a different warehouse, UPS. It will probably be there tomorrow. It is not something you take in and out - I recommend you install it immediately and permanently, and only get the longer blades. Any jigs that you make should be for the "full size" saw, and may be different without the riser block. For example, I built a fence extension that is taller than the saw without the riser block. And the very critical wheel alignment could be different with the riser block in place - not something you want to do repeatedly. And the simple process of putting in the longer post that holds the upper blade guide is probably the trickiest part of the installation (believe the instructions and follow them).
________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie.. the reason I'm waiting for the mobile base is so that I can put the stand on the base.. before I put the saw on the stand. Otherwise it's quite a trick to lift a heavy tool onto a mobile base.
Right now the saw is on the floor next to the stand waiting for me to get home from work and admire them both.
On second thought you're right.. I might as well swallow the pill and do the riser block work now than later.
I'm looking forward to one day resawing some 12" 8/4 stock for panels and tops.
Bill
Charlie, the riser block came last night and I installed it this morning once I got the ShopFox mobile base assembled.
Whoa! Not easy to do by yourself. Once I removed the upper part of the saw and placed the riser block on the lower part.. I got my wife to hold the upper wheel assembly stable while I fiddled for tools to bolt it all together.
Ended up using a crescent wrench and a pair of channel locks, absent the open end and box wrenches of the proper size. (Who has wrenches that size, anyway?)
When I pulled the original guide post out.. twaaang! Out popped two small pieces it took me a long time to find. One was a little spring.. the other ( I learned after calling service for help) was a small ball bearing. Finally found the ball bearing under a propane tank clear on the other side of the garage. Called service back to find out how to reinstall them (backing out the set screw and shoving the ball first, spring second, into the V notch on the guide post and then screwing the set screw back in.
Called service back a third (and fourth) time to get help adjusting the tension assembly to accept the 105 blade. Between adjusting the spacers and raising the wheel and turning the knob.. I'm still not sure I have it right.. but the blade is tensioned, at least temporarily. Tomorrow I'm going to Woodcraft to pick up some Timberwolf blades before I spend more time this weekend tackling the vicissitudes of tensioning the blade and adjusting the upper and lower support bearings.
Called back a final time when, after installing the fence rails and fence, I wound up with one extra piece not mentioned anywhere in the manual. Turns out it goes on the bottom of the far end of the fence to ride along the top of the back rail as a height adjuster.
So that's where I am after five hours. A fully assembled GO555 with riser block awaiting a new blade and final adjustments. I'm having fun, now!!!
Bill
That spring and ball bearing were the pieces I was referring to - as I recall, the directions say to use the new guide post to push the old one out, which keeps the ball bearing and spring in place.
It took me a half hour to find my ball bearing on the Jet bandsaw. The Grizzly is the same, so the second time I had learned my lesson.
The Timberwolf blades use less tension than most blades, so follow their directions (on the back of the pack) to set the tension. Basically pull the guides back, run loose until it flutters (you will know what that is when you see it), then tighten until the filutter is gone.
The big nut that you struggled with must be a common size. 20+ years ago I bought a socket that size, much larger than the rest of my socket wrench set, and have used it countless times over the years.
Enjoy the new saw!________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie.. I read the instructions re: the removal and insertion of the guide rod.. but believe it or not.. I didn't understand it even after reading it three or four times. What can I tell you?
I, too, had a large socket passed on to me by an old friend more than 25 years ago for use on backing out a faucet nut in a shower. It was useful for removing the original nut.. but the replacement for the riser assembly was a hair smaller. Got a crescent around it.. and used the channel locks topside.
Thanks for tips on the Timberwolf blade tensioning. I should be up and running over the weekend.
Bill
Edited 4/1/2004 6:54 pm ET by bill
Len,
That's old crusties for ya! I can relate to his attitude.
If the saw has provision for "block" or "cylinder" type guides, make some out of lignum vitae. You can get right onto the blade with no clearance required as the LV has enough natural oil to keep things from getting too hot.
Regards,
Mack
"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
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