I need help!
I am having a heck of a time setting up my General 15″ Bandsaw for resawing boards. I have done a bunch of research and setup the bandsaw over and over without good results. When resawing boards or sawing half logs the board drifts away from the fence. When resawing very thin pieces it does not seem a problem but when cutting a 2″ thick piece it is.
As far as I can tell there is no drift adjustment on the General fence.
Any Ideas?
Thanks
Warren
Replies
Attach a straight stick to each wheel and look down from directly above the center line. If you see that the sticks aren't parallel, you need to address that before anything else. Do this with the blade under tension. Also, if you're trying to use the blade that came with the saw, unless it's actually a good one, throw it out. The one they send is used more to keep the wheels from moving than anything else. Do a search here for bandsaw issues and blades for more info.
Take a look at Michael Fortune's 5 tips in this FWW issue: http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fw_toc_173.asp
He advocates adjusting the tracking to set the drift to match your fence, rather than adjusting the fence. That works best if your blade is sharp, and you usually use one type of blade, which he also recommends.
Take a look at Michael Fortune's 5 tips in this FWW issue: http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fw_toc_173.aspHe advocates adjusting the tracking to set the drift to match your fence, rather than adjusting the fence. That works best if your blade is sharp, and you usually use one type of blade, which he also recommends.
Here it is online: http://www.taunton.com/FWN/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=24093
Try a different blade. If you are using a stamped blade, it will dirft! A machined blade is less likely to drift. I like Timberwolf blade so by Suffolks Machinery (I think this is the spelling). I have also seen them at shops such as Woodcraft.
Good luck.
making sure the saw is set up properly is, of course, very important to blade drift. However, since I started using Timber Wolf blades, drift is not an issue, on my current Delta X5 14" or the 12" Craftsman I had before it. Both saws had no drift with Timber Wolf blades.
The blades have to be in good condition, as you might suspect. I accidentally proved this to myself while resawing a large piece of cherry. I had a brand new Timber Wolf blade installed and it was tracking perfect. Then it ran down the side of a nail that was embedded deep in the tree at some point. That contact wiped the set off one side of the blade and it instantly began drifting towards the sharp (undamaged) side of the blade.
I would suggest beginning by going through the saw to be sure it is set up perfectly, then try Timber Wolf blades. I think your problems will be over at that point.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
"However, since I started using Timber Wolf blades, drift is not an issue...." Amen! I have one of the cheapest 14" bandsaw around (old Grizzly 1019Z) and have never, ever had a problem with drift. (well, except for when the nut holding the lower wheel loosened up). I really do agree with whoever that expert was I read awhile back, that the whole bandsaw blade drift thing is a total myth. It is not a necessary part of using a bandsaw. Ok, now I'll have to find that article. Darn.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
In high school, when the time came to set up the machines, we had to adjust the bandsaw and one of the things we needed to check is drift. It was a big old saw and while I don't remember it needing adjustment, it was checked for that. That was in the '70s and I still see David Marks and others on woodworking shows checking/adjusting for it. I'm not sure why they don't just recommend buying a good set of blades, but I haven't seen it yet. I wonder why Timberwolf and others don't advertise on these shows. I don't have one of the name brand blades but mine came from a one man shop that buys the blade stock in bulk and makes them up as needed, including annealing to eliminate the britleness, and it doesn't drift at all. Not bad for a fairly cheap saw (G0555) with a fence that gets dumped on pretty often.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Thanks for all the responses.
As some have suggested I dug up the article from 2004 and adjusted the bandsaw as recommended. All seems well until I resaw a thick piece.
As the article states you should not need more than two fingers to push the wood through. I need a fair amount of pressure, more than two fingers worth.
Next step is going to have to be a new blade. Only question is where do I find good blades in Canada?
One issue I could not work out was the blade will not ride in the center of both wheels. I did check for alinment and all is well between the two wheels. Any fixes other than replace the rubber?
I know setup is worth the trouble but this is driving me crazy.
Thanks
Warren
nakuspbc,
The blade must ride in the center of the top wheel....I don't worry bout the bottom wheel. I've tried several blades and they all work well if everything is aligned. A skip tooth is quite aggressive and cuts with much less force...yo might want to try that.
Check with Suffolk Machinery (makers of Timber Wolf) and see if they ship to Canada. It's best to call them, but here's their web site also:http://www.suffolkmachinery.com
.(800) 234-7297
My guess is, if they don't ship, they will still have a source for you, some how, some way. There are other great blades out there, but what works on a 16" or 18" MiniMax may not work as well as the TW blades on a 14" lightweight saw.
I might disagree at bit with BG (sorry friend) about not worrying about how the blade rides on the lower wheel. When I had my problem last year, it was because the blade wasn't riding on the lower wheel correctly. What happens if the blade is centered on the top wheel, yet riding off-center on the lower wheel (on a crowned wheel) is that the blade gets a bit of a twist in it. As long as that twist was there, I had problems. Finally tracked down the culprit (loose nut on lower wheel), tightened it up and got better alignment ----> drift disappeared. Blade might not have to be absolutely dead-center on the lower wheel, but I don't think it can be too far off without causing problems.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If you have a local machine shop that sharpens, ask if they sell/make up bandsaw blades. My guess is that they do and it could save you some money. My 1/2" 3TPI hook blade was about US $14, IIRC and while it's not a skip blade, it resaws white oak down to <1/8" easily on my Grizzly 14" with riser block. The Timberwolf site has a lot of good info regarding the different blade types and what they're used for. Having a local shop like that is a great resource anyway, since once you go there and see what they can do, a lot of possibilities open up for you in terms of shop fixtures, jigs, tool and machinery repair and details for projects that you may undertake.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
If you read a little further in Michael Fortune's article, he mentions the source of his blades in Canada, the price seems right.C.
If you have been cutting some tight radius circles with a blade, you may find that the blade is now blunt on one side - I did this, and you could feel the difference with your fingers and one side was of the teeth were a bit burnt. It seems to have the same tracking effect that diffent sets do as described in the tuning dovetails saw articles recently.
There was no way to adjust for drift with this blade. New blade and the adjustments were simple as per that article. I now just slacken everything off when I change blades and then work progressively through a routine. This means that misalignment of some later stage doesnt affect early steps.
Dave
Only question is where do I find good blades in Canada?
Timberwolf changed the name to Viking Bands.
I picked mine up from Woodworkers Haven at one of the wood shows, they are in Ontario and they ship. They specialize in Bandsaw blades and accesories. Here is their web page: http://www.woodworkershaven.com/ It's got a bunch of good information on it.
Of course Lee Valley Tools sells them as well. Just remember to look for Viking.
See FWW issue #182, pg 16. A part of your problem may be blade tension. Only a suggestion, not advice.Actually, I have had a similar problem cutting veneer, even poplar! I muddled through the project without actually getting a handle on the problem or a technique. One of the woods (narra, or pterocarpus indicus) seemed to give a problem with oily sawdust buildup on and around the blade. It seems to have dulled the blade also, which was why it wouldn't cut poplar very well. I used two different blades, both new. One was the HH Woodslicer which FWW rated highly. They both look dull now, but the points are reasonably sharp. I haven't checked my blade tension as the article describes, but I shall. Did you say what species of wood you were slicing?Cadiddlehopper
Sorry for the double reply, but I went back to my saw.
I highly suggest a new blade...
I have a General International 90-125 14" Band saw. More or less new. I purchased it at a wood show here at the beginning of November. As part of the deal I got a riser kit. During the show I also picked up two new Viking (timberwolf) blades and an aftermarket fence from Woodworkers Haven. It was an expensive weekend. I set up the saw right away, but these extra accessories have been sitting in the shop until I read this thread. So tonight I decided to get things installed.
I put the riser kit on, tried to align the wheels to the best of my ability (remember the band saw is new...), I adjusted the top wheel so that is was no longer tilted. I then added the fence and adjusted it so that it was perpendicular to the table. Loaded up the stock blade 1/4" ???TPI blade. Probably the same as what you have on your saw.
Pulled out some scraps to test some resawing... I cut ~5" into the wood and got nearly 1/8" drift. Ouch... I decided it's time to change blades. I put on the Viking 1/2" 3 TPI blade, which is recommended for resawing. Cut the entire 22" board with 0.05" deviation. Much less pressure to push the board through as well.
Now I realize this 'test' is far from scientific. The first blade could have been misaligned, the tensioning off... So I'll let you decide it's worth. But to me this shows a huge difference between the stock blade and a high quality Viking.
Warren,
If the blade is tracking in the center of the upper wheel, all is well. It has already left the workpiece by the time it reaches the bottom wheel, so this isn't a problem. If you've followed the setup procedure in the '04 article, then I submit that your problem is blade selection. He recommends a BCSaw 1/2" 3tpi skip. I use them on a REALLY CHEAP Harbor Fright 14" and it cuts anything I ask it to. They are in Toronto, and the blades are really inexpensive ($8.50 or so US). http://www.bcsaw.com.
hope this helps.
2 secrets to keeping your wife happy
1. let her think she's having her own way.
2. let her have her own way.
I will keep this simple. Own experience.
My 14in saw is old and I tried to get a replacement bottom guide assembly. No luck, but the storeman suggested I ran without a bottom guide. The saw now performs better than ever before! I think I caused the previous problems trying to adjust too many variables.
For deepening I use metalcutting blades on oak iroko and paduke. Hope this helps.
I read that articule in FFw about setting up your band saw, and it sure worked for me. I took all the drift out and my fence is always straight. I found that different blade size made a difference, and I will reset the drift when I change blades. A new or new sharpened blade is a must to set up, and you have to remember to back off your guide blocks before adjustments, and then reset them when done. Just a little turn of the upper wheel tilt adjustment wil move the blade foward or backward on the wheel to line it up just right.
Absolutely right! Rich
Hi Warren! Give this a try just to see what happens. It is a pretty simple solution, and it works.
Get a square scrap of plywood about 1/2 the width, and the same length as your table.
Draw a square line down the center of the plywood.Front to back
Carefully freehand cut along the line, and stop when the plywood reaches the back of the table.
Shut the saw off, being very careful not to move the plywood. and mark a line, on the table, on the outside edge of the plywood.
Set your fence to that line, no matter how out of square it may appear to be.
Happy resawing!!!!! LW
This should be done to check the drift but it it's way off, there's something that's not right, somewhere. If the blade drifts excessively, it's usually the alignment of the upper to the lower half, the blade tension is too low or the teeth are worn/set is wrong on one side. A little drift is OK, but there are a lot of people here who have little or none, so I really don't think living with that much drift is justified. Especially on a new machine.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I've done somemthing similar to establish drift angle, but now have a question. Timberwolf blades are designed for specific types and ranges of thickness, for example 3/4" to 1.5" hardwood, 1/4" to 1" plywood, et cetera. Might get best measure of drift angle using same thickness and type of wood as what will be cut. Just a thought.
Thanks for all your reply's.
I have readjusted the bandsaw with a small improvement.
Have ordered a Viking Bandsaw blade from Lee Valley, hopefully this will solve the problem.
One question I cannot seem to answer is can you even adjust for drift on the General 15" bandsaw fence? As far as I can see there is no way to adjust other than adding shim.
Thanks Again
Warren
Let us know if the new blade fixes your problem. The Timberwolf blades have fixed all my problems on an old Craftsman BS -- in the days when Craftsman was acceptable quality.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
"Timberwolf blades are designed for specific types and ranges of thickness, for example 3/4" to 1.5" hardwood...." This is somehwat misleading. You always consider pitch (#teeth per inch) in relationship to the thickness of the wood when choosing which band saw blade to use. The general rule is to have between 6 and 12 teeth in the stock at a given time. This isn't anything specific to a brand of blade, it's applicable to all blades.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sorry I wasn't more clear in the post. There was a suggestion earlier in the thread to "measure" the drift by cutting a straight line in a piece of plywood. I was wondering if it would be more accurate to "measure" the drift with a scrap piece of the wood to be cut, which might be much thicker than 1/2" or even 3/4" plywood. I didn't mean to suggest using a tpi inappropriate to the thickness of the wood, but just the opposite. Since the blade will have been selected based in part of the thickness of the stock to be cut, a piece of plywood may not be the appropriate thickness for the blade.
I use scrap 2x4s a lot with a pencil line scribed parallel to the edge of the wood.
Not to reply directly to your post, but to all who are reading this thread:
Again, as others have mentioned, Suffolk Machinery (the TimberWolf folks) have a most instructive website. A chart is available on their site with suggestions of which blade to use for particular purposes; it describes the blade width, tpi, hook, set, etc. for cutting hardwood or softwood (and sheet goods, I think) and range of thickness of the stock. I talked to them on the phone and received a recommendation for a blade to be used on my particular saw for a particular purpose. For about $25, I got impeccable results re-sawing 4-5" wide walnut and oak.
"I talked to them on the phone and received a recommendation for a blade to be used on my particular saw for a particular purpose." Don't you love their customer service. Having them help pick your blade is an especially good way to go for people who are buying their first BS blades. The web site has so much info, it's easy to get lost!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yep, the service is the best. It's a no-brainer for me where I will go for future BS blades (like after I get the riser kit for my 14" BS). Thanks!
After I use the plywood method to check for drift, I set the fence, and have cut 9" veneers and they were consistant. I readjust the fence for each different blade.
Hi Nakusp,
Viking blades from Lee Valley are Timberwolf.
Ken
I haven't tried the Viking/Timberwolf but I do second the vote for the Woodslicer blade from Highland Hardware. Highly recommended.
Well the Viking(Timberwolf) blade arrived.
I now bow before all of you who suggested the blade. I am a believer.
Followed there setup instructions and WOW. Everything I tried to resaw before and failed cut like a hot knife through butter, straight uniform boards. With all other blades, the blade would ride dead center on the top wheel and offset on the bottom. This one lines up center on both. I should probably save myself some time and cut up my old blades so I don't try and use them again.
One small issue with the blade since I have had these problems, I have been looking at the small details. This blade when viewed from the side move approx. 1/32"- 1/16" when the weld comes past, is this acceptable?
What more can I say but a big THANKYOU this has saved me hours of hairpulling frustration.
Thanks
Warren
The weld needs to be even and straight. Does it make a "bang" noise as it goes through the guides? If it bangs or won't track, send it back. Lately I've been buying Timberwolf bands from Constitution Saw in South Windsor, CT and I got very good welds. No web site, but the phone number is (860) 289-7696 or toll free at (800) 444-8041.Usual disclaimers, I'm just a happy customer.Pete
You can also buy Timber Wolf blade from the manufacturer Suffolk Machinery. Their website is:
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/
I don't know if other resellers are cheaper, I don't know how they could be, but I buy my TW blades here. Call them. Takes about a week to get them. Great blades!!
I'm so glad (well, not glad) that you have had the same problem with your Viking bandsaw blade. I got one after an article in FW recommended the 1/2" 3 tpi blade as a good all-purpose blade, and I have had the same problems.I'm on blade number three (God bless Lee Valley--they're customer service is impeccable), and all three blades have the exact same problem you described. Did you have any luck getting your problem sorted out? I did what little tuning up I could do on my Powermatic bandsaw, so I figured the problem is with the blade (esp. since the "fat part" is near the weld on all three blades.) Is a new blade the best solution? LV said they'll refund my money if this last blade didn't work out, so I guess I'll try a different supplier--Suffolk machinery, perhaps?
Is replying twice OK?
I watched the bandsaw guy at the Cloverdale woodshow last fall. He was a real magician with it, cut straight freehand, scribled a line on a board and cut straight down the middle of it. bandsaw boxes, everything. He took the blade off and put it back on to show how it was done. Then the saw would not cut at all straight. He did a minor adjustment to the upper wheel tracking and all was well. He was a bit embarassed because he was selling Viking blades with the implication if not outright claim that it was all in the blade.
Ken
Doesn't make sense that anyone would claim it's "all in the blade." But when a saw is tuned properly and has no mechanical defects, blade drift can be eliminated by using a high quality blade. At least that's been my experience to date.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi,
Guess you had to be there.
In other words if the the only cause of drift is a poor blade then nothing will fix it except installing a good blade. But in this case he took the blade off and put the same blade back on, set the tension by the flutter method, using a white paper on the table so he could see better, and then he was surprised himself that the saw would not perform. I was surprised at what a tiny deviation from the proper tracking adjustment caused such poor performance. He tried several times to do the demonstrations.
Anyway there are lots of sucker tests and not just in automotive.
Ken
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled