I read most of Bill Pentz’s site, and I am amazed.
First of all, I never buy anything from a guy who says he has the only best way.
Beyond that, I was amazed at the amount of resources.
There must be balance. It isn’t possible to collect all dust; it isn’t possible to work wood in a perfectly safe, clean environment.
Therefore, there must be a balance between the amount of resources dedicated to dust collection, and the result.
I’ve been watching Forestgirl talk about horses. I, personally, am terribly allergic to horses. And cats. They make my eyes swell shut, and while they don’t land me in the hospital, they do incapacitate me. (Not to mention that I’ve never met a horse I couldn’t fall off– I can fall of a merry-go-round. But I digress.)
I have a very simple solution. I don’t ride horses, and I avoid cats.
Assigning resources to cat or horse hair collection so I can be around them would be a huge waste of resources.
As I say, balance. I come from the day when we tore asbestos down with shovels, and while I agree with progress and the idea that as we learn we change, if I needed a sterile, clean room so I could work wood, I would investigate another hobby.
So. Rather than hijack the several threads running about dust collection, I thought I would say what I wanted to here– that I’m running a Jet 2 horse dust collector that’s about ten years old, blowing thing into two cloth filters, I have a air scrubber, and I’m piping it in with 4 inch ABS.
Oh.
Yeah.
When a guy wants to claim that he has the one, true end-all system, he needs to know the difference between PVC and ABS.
You gotta die of something, no exceptions.
At some point, I’m not going to allocate more finite resources to something that I don’t believe requires it.
Replies
Jman, everything in life is a balance . . . . and that balance (including allocation of resourses) changes as our circumstances and experience change.
Having gone thru Pentz' site, i sense he got religion due to health issues, and is trying to pass on his experience to others. The fact he really believes in his current venture does not discredit him, but rather reaffirms the vast amount of effort ( a resource) he has put into this life "project."
I don't have YET have a cyclone, but will someday in the not too distant future, i hope. i don't have health problems, lung-wise, and hope to avoid any. That said, while i appreciate Bill's work, and am certainly more knowledgeable due to his postings, i will probably go Oneida due to personal circumstances.
"You gotta die of something, no exceptions."
I am Ralph Barker, of the clan Barker. I was born in the highlands of Scotland in the year . . . Oh, nevermind. ;-)
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!(Oh, did I say that out loud?)
You've got to be careful, the Pentz site is religion in some parts... this type of post is liable to get you labelled as a troll!
The Pentz website really is a valuable resource for those of us that want to invest in dust collection... but I have to agree, he does go a little 'extremist' at times. It really is important to understand that Mr Pentz is very sensitive to dust for other reasons, and it's these other reasons that make him so 'religious' about dust collection.
The thing that really gets me is that people don't really listen to what he says. Everybody is willing to fork out a bunch of cash for a cyclone. But then they don't upgrade dust ports, or use overhead collection points on the table saw...
I have to agree we should aim for reasonable and realistic with our goals. We'll never get to a dust free environment inside a workshop. We'll always have some chips, and dust.
I spent some time (and a bunch of cash) upgrading my dust collection system last year. The site was invaluable in helping me set it up. I don't regret any of the time or money I invested in the system, my hobby is much more enjoyable for it. Is my shop clean... not really.
Buster, you make a great point when you said "...Everybody is willing to fork out a bunch of cash for a cyclone. But then they don't upgrade dust ports, or use overhead collection points on the table saw..."
I think people get caught up in CFM ratings and requirements and they completely forget, as Bill points out, that most machines are poorly designed for dust collection. Heck, my old Delta lunchbox planer didn't even come with a DC port.
I found adding a simple overhead blade guard, to my TS, made a huge difference in my air quality (Excalibur). I also recently upgraded my planer, which came with a 4" collection point, and now I have almost no dust at all.
I still plan on getting a cyclone. Until then, my Jet 1.5 canister unit is working just fine...
Tbagn, re: your 1.5HP Jet cannister collector....What fitting do you have right at the blower port?
Another question, can you give me an idea, phonetically, how your name is pronounced? I feel lost without an "auditory image" as it were.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG, until a month ago, I ran a 6" clear flexible tube and reduced it to 4", at the tool. That system worked great. However, a month or two ago, I decided it was time to improve my TS dust collection, since it was my biggest dust producer. As a result, I decided to get an Excalibur blade guard.
As I'm sure you already know (I think you have the Penn State), I would now have to use the wye fitting off my DC. I am lazy, so I wanted to use something that made it really easy to move things around... so I went with the Rockler Dust right expandable hose (x2, Internet special), the Rockler Dust Right handle (x2) and the 4"Dust Port/Rubber-Plastic 2pk (x3).
The darn thing works like a champ and it is almost too easy to move from tool-to-tool. The hose can extend longer than I need, but I don't want to cut them down until I'm comfortable with the placement of all of my stationary equipment (just moved in to the house in September). It works well enough that it can keep up with my cabinet saw, new 15" planer, 10" jointer, 18" BS, 3 HP Shaper and router table - though not at the same time. I use a plastic lid (cottage cheese) instead of a blast gate (lol)... it works and it was extremely affordable!
Oh, I also have a JDS-750 ER to help clean the air.
Thanks for the info, Tbagn. I'll check the Rockler stuff out. I haven't set my Penn State up with the Unisaw yet, have to hang it from the ceiling. I have the JDS 750 also, bought "new in box" at an estate auction for $75. Yipee! That was a great auction, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
darn, that is a great deal. I think I paid $130... and I felt kinda bad about it :0)
Well, your $130 isn't bad at all. Retail is well over $300!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
funny, I use the carton from cottage cheese for a blast gate. It works so well and I have an endless supply of them
I do own a cyclone... I bought it cheap off craigslist. The guy even threw in some fittings. It's only 2HP, but working from the fan curve it supplies enough CFM as long as only one port is open. The ducting has some flaws, and I still have half my tools to hook up... The easy ones are done now. Next remaining ones are awaiting a shop shuffle.The easy tools are the ones I use the most. TS, BS, Jointer, and planer. I've left a port for the overhead guard on the TS but at this time I'm still looking. The TS was up for sale before my wife changed jobs... now I'm just holding on to it to see what the Canadian dollar will do against the US dollar.
I got my Jet DC and JDS on craigslist... I almost felt guilty because they were such a deal!
I'm thinking a 3 HP cyclone, but I would jump at a 2 HP unit, if the price were right. I currently have my TS, Jointer and Planer really close to my current setup. I think I could get away with a few feet of duct work and expand, as funds become available. That darn duct work can cost as much as a new cyclone :o(
As it happens, I'm trying to SELL an Excalibur tablesaw guard-- not only did it fail to meet my expectations for dust collection, but it annoys me, because it's big, yellow and difficult to adjust.
Edited 2/19/2009 3:54 am ET by Jammersix
That is a surprise. What DC unit are you running? Mine is getting (not a scientific measurement, just pulled it out of thin air) 90% to 95% of the above-the-table dust.
I am truly amazed at the difference and I couldn't be happier..? I'm even wondering why I spent all that money on a SawStop :0)
An old Jet. I should find out, shouldn't I?I just went downstairs and looked.It says "Shopline" and "JET" on the bag, and the tag says "1.5 HP", (I thought it was bigger than that) JET model JSL 1100DC.
You woodworkers are a fickle lot!I had my Excalibur sold, for $200, and I just got an email with the guy backing out.Tbagn, you need to go buy another table saw, then buy my Excalibur!
You definitely have it priced right. I think I paid $350 new... so $200 is a bargain. One came up on Craigslist 4 to 6 months ago... and I never gave it a second thought. Now that I have one, I laugh and wonder why it took me so long. I guess I hated spending money on something that wasn't a "tool"... but my shop air quality is so much better.
I have the same dust collector that you do - except I have the canister filter (Jet 1100). Does your Excalibur work well after you empty your bags? If so, I'd suggest looking in to picking up a canister. They have very little CFM loss as they fill up. Totally different when you have the regular bags.
I just realized there's more to the story.I installed a router in the table that the Excalibur was hanging over. :)
Ah! Yea that boom would get in the way if you do a lot of routing. Maybe ForestGirl will post pics of her setup... once she gets it setup... She said that she has one that hangs from the ceiling.
The Penn State Industries overhead guard can be floor mounted or ceiling mounted. If I can figure out exactly where I want the saw, and get it moved (the mobile base is only mobile when the saw isn't on it), I can procede with the guard.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"The mobile base is only mobile..."<scratches chin, looks confused>Then......oh, never mind.I just received a herd of blast gates and a low voltage on-off-er thingie from Penn State.I have high hopes! When I read about this in The Workshop Book lo, those many years past, I had a brief, passing thought along the lines of "you know, I bet that would sell!" but then I turned the page.It pleases me that the market has rushed to fill my perceived vacuum, and that now peons like me can vacuum by remote control with fancy, blast-gate switched dust collection!
Automatic blast-gates are cool, I saw a sysstem last year that the guy had made himself, which many people do but it's beyond my level of dedication. Sure happy with the Long ranger II that just turns on and off the DC itself.
The mobile base situation. Delta Mobile Base, designed for Unisaw, but something's seriously wrong. Haven't successfully trouble-shot it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"I have a very simple solution. I don't ride horses, and I avoid cats."
I'm not sure I know how you can do that. I've never had a shop without a cat in it and I'm not sure I could work in one without a cat.
As Buster says, you had better beware that you're not branded as a troll, because we all know -- at least we scandanavians do -- that trolls have tails, which makes them sort of like cats and horses. You could end up being allergic to yourself. Now there's a conundrum! ;>)
Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!
Yeah, but all fish have tails, too, none of them are Scandinavian, and none of them have ever made me sneeze.So, you get what you pay for. Or something. A rolling stone goes around. And comes around. Or something. I missed the details.In Norway, I saw T-shirts that said "we'd hunt dolphins, too!"Dolphins also have tails, but like whales, they spell it "f-l-u-k-e".So go figure.Besides, every time a Scandinavian was buying the drinks, I was able to drink him under the table. So I'm not impressed.
Edited 2/19/2009 3:56 am ET by Jammersix
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled