Hello,
I have floor tile that looks as though it could contain asbestos. I plan to lay ceramic tile directly on top of it. The guys at the tile store suggested I sand it first…it sounded like such a good idea until I thought of sanding and filling the air w/asbestos. Hmmm….not too smart! The sanding was suggested as a way to deal with making the thin set adhere to the existing floor…any other suggestions? Please know that I am basically a very lazy and yet busy person. I’m looking for a quick, simple, effective soloution.
My apologies that this isn’t a woodworking question but everyone on this forum has been so helpful I thought I’d give it a try.
Kate
Replies
First thing, find out if the flooring contains asbestos. Cut off a small part and take it to a testing lab. Contact your building department and they will direct you to the correct spot.
If it does, I would avoid sanding for the reasons you stated. I would also be concerned about years of gunk that may be on the existing floor and how a cement will adhere to it. Maybe you need to go at it first with some type of solvent cleaner.
However, I'm not a floor expert but I wonder how thin set can be applied to something like a non-rigid flooring tile.
I think you want to get some info from a good flooring installer.
Consumer grade asbestos floor tiles are typically 9" square. Don't sand them if they are this size.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I agree with you and the other posts...do not sand it unless you check with a lab and have it tested.
If it is asbestos, I would leave it in place and add something like durarock, that is made to accept tile, and lay down a layer of that over the tile and screw/nail as recommended by the manufacturer.
Good luck!
-Mark
Kate -
Sheds said it all: don't sand, don't try to adhere the ceramic tile to the floor tile and do lay down some hardi board backer. Screw it down well and you'll have a much better bond and floor.
However ....
Are you over a wood framed floor? If so, check the deflection (bounce) of the floor system. If you can feel the floor bounce when someone walks across the center of the room my opinion, and that's all it is, is that there's too much deflection in the floor for something like rigid ceramic tile. Will look good for a while but eventually the grout will start cracking and working its way out.
Post this kind of question in the Breaktime forum, the Fine Homebuilding section. There are several good tile people over there who will jump on this type of question.
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Use that Pergo (or other makers) laminate flooring that actually "floats" on top of the underlayment. You can put it over anything except carpet. They sell some patterns and colors that look like tile rather then fake wood, check salvage stores for cheap imitations that will cost a lot less.
Whatever it is, I don't think you have to touch it.
They make a 1/4" tile backer board which can be screwed to the existing floor and then tiled in the conventional manner.
Assuming the existing tile is somewhere around 1/8" thick, this would mean that you will be adding 3/8".
This is ordinarily not a problem, except if it is a kitchen with an under-counter dishwasher. If that is the case, you would want to see if you can pull the DW out, tile under it, and still have enough space to reinstall the DW.
If you just tile up to the DW, when it needs to be replaced, that will probably mean you have to remove the counter above it in order to get it out. This could be a major hassle.
Kate,
After having been in the foor covering industry for 14 years I can assure you that improper floor prep is the #1 reason for floor covering failures and unsatifactory results. Some of the advice that has been posted in reply to your question is incorrect. I cannot give you my advice because there is not enough information in your origional post. What type of subfloor is under the tile? Why not remove the tile? What type of setting materials do you plan to use?
There is one piece of advice that I can give you. Find a floor covering store. A real floor covering store. Not a floor covering dept at at big box store. There will be someone in that store that has epxerience and is willing to give you the advice you need.
Roger
I am a Certified Asbestos Abatement Supervisor.
DO NOT DRY SAND until you are sure if it non-asbestos! You will put the fibers in the air and that is not a good thing. Asbestos can be wet sanded with proper precautions, but for a DIY'er, I would not recommend it.
Personally, I would remove the flooring. This is a lot safer as long as you keep the tiles wet while removing them. It will also hurt your resale value if you leave the floor there. A problem is with the mastic. These also may contain asbestos fibers and is more prone to releasing them during the process. But by keeping them wet you can do it very easily. You would need proper PPE, tyvek disposable coveralls, gloves, repirator, and visqueen.
The only problem would be state and local regulations. Under EPA you would have no problems removing it yourself. I helped my cousin remove his and sent it out with the trash, properly double bagged.
Kevin Arceneaux
Visit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
Kate:
I had what I thought (9 inch squares and from the late 60's) was asbestos tile over a concrete slab in my house. I found if it contains asbestos it's incredibly expensive to remove and finding out gets the county involved. The other option was to put ceramic tile over it to seal it from any kind of abrasion that may release asbestos.
I dewaxed the tile 3 times and used an acrylic additive to the thinset and grout. I haven't had any problem with the tile - even in high traffic areas.
Dusty
"I found if it contains asbestos it's incredibly expensive to remove and finding out gets the county involved."Not in all cases. In most states, if the homeowner does it him/herself, that is allowed under existing rules and regulations. It depends on state and local regulations. Most households are exempt from most of the rules and regulations that businesses must follow.Kevin ArceneauxVisit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
Kevin- since we're talking about asbestos, I have some asbestos(I assume) tape on the heating ducts in my duplex. I will probably be replacing at least one of the furnaces. The tape is only a few inches wide and I won't be going any farther than the subfloor. It does absorb water and would like to remove it unless stabilizing it would be a better option. For removal, I assume keeping it wet and scraping it off, then wiping the residue off, being covered while wearing a mask and double bagging this material is a good way to get rid of it? I also have a vacuum with a HEPA filter. Will this catch airborne asbestos? I would wrap and discard the filter when done.Makes me worry a bit about the science kit I had when I was a kid. It had a chunk of asbestos in it.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Here is how I would doit in my own house.1. Are you sure that the tape is asbestos? If you do not have a lot, you can presume that it is.
2. To keep the tape wet - use a sprayer, like the one you use for weeds. For a small area, use can use a squirt bottle - make sure it is on mist, not stream. Only use as much water as you would need to keep the tape damp, you do not need to do this under a constant stream of water, that just makes a bigger mess.
3. using the heaviest thickness visqueen create an area on the floor underneath the work area - you do not want this on the floor - again a cleanup problem.
4. using the thickest garbage bag, I would tape it to the pipe that the opening is directly underneath the tape you are removing. The tape and water sould fall into the bag.
5. Have a respirator, preferable a full face one, you can use a pancake type filter on it. You do not need the more expensive checmical cartidges. If you can get a pair of tyveck coveralls with the hood, these are relatively cheap and since ALL clothing, except you underware is going in the trash, it is better than throwing away your clothes. Wear rubber boots and rinse them off when you are done.
6. The vacuum - rig it up so that the intake nozzle is near the work area. I am going to assume you are going to use a shop-vac type with a hepa filter. When done rinse the hose and the tank out.
7. Use a scaper - putty knives are what is usually used. Peal what tape off you can after wetting. Only use the scraper when needed. An alternative would be to use alcohol or thinner the loosen the glue. drop the rags used for that in the trash bags. Before you take the drop bag off each spot - wipe the entire area of the pipe down and throw that towel in the trash. Vacuum the pipe before you move to the next. Do a good foot from each side of the tape.
8. Area Clean up - DO NOT REMOVE YOUR PPE YET, that is the next step - Carefully double bag the trash bags you had underneath the tape. Remember, you are putting wet junk in these bags, be carefull not to overload them. Damp wipe everything in the area below where the tape was and bag the rags. Vacuum the are then. Bag the visqueen you put on the floor and, if you covered anyting with visqueen, bag that visquuen also. Vacuum the floor. Before you pull up the last piece of visqueen up, put one more piece on the floor.
9. Your cleanup - The mask is last. Stand on the piece of visqueen you just put down. Vacuum yourself. As you remove your gloves, remove them by turning them inside out, this keeps the dust INSIDE the glove. Bag them. Remove your outside clothing, try to remove them by turning them inside out. Bag up the last garbage. Now wet and remove the filter from the vacuum and bag it. Now remove your mask, dispose of the filters.That should do it. This is only a guide to help. IF you have any doubts, don't do it. If you have kids in the house, send them somewhere for the day while you do this.You can find sealer to put on the tape. A polyurethane paint should do the trick on this.Kevin ArceneauxVisit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
Thanks for all of the info. Not that I'm going to sit around pushing my luck, but is it true that smokers who have prolonged exposure to asbestos have an especially high risk of Mesothelioma? I know of one person who worked with this stuff for the better part of 50 years, retired in the late 1970's. No problems at all. Then, I suppose, some people are susceptible to things like this after just minor exposure.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Non-smokers have a 4x higher risk of lung cancer then non-smokers if exposed to asbestos. Smokers have a 96x higher risk if exposed to asbestos.
Frank
"Not that I'm going to sit around pushing my luck, but is it true that smokers who have prolonged exposure to asbestos have an especially high risk of Mesothelioma?"Studies have shown that mesothelioma is not associated with smoking. It appears to be linked with crocidolite asbestos. But there is no clear link between smoking and Meso. A lot of the commercial's for shyster's on TV are aimed at scaring people into calling them. Meso has a 20-40 year period betweem exposure and development and not all will develope it. NOTE: Meso is what Steve McQueen died of. He worked in shipyards in his youth.That being said - smokers who also work with asbesto's are 50 times more likely to contract lung cancer.The lag time between asbestos exposure and occurance of cancer is generally 10-20 years.Kevin ArceneauxVisit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
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