Replies

1. 
   woodrae | Dec 05, 2006 05:36pm | #1

   Davek—

   Don’t despair. I, too, have had a difficult time finding Benjamin Moore products lately. But I’ve used many other types of products for my mixture, and they all work equally well. I just happen to be a big fan of Benjamin Moore products.

   You can purchase wood paste filler, also called “grain filler” or “paste wood filler,” in several colors, from walnut, mahogany, dark brown oak, white, black and more. Having said this, forget all of the color varieties. You want “natural,” which should be a light tan color. The filler must be oil-based filler (look for mineral spirits as the primary solvent), not water-based. Wood paste filler is traditionally used on bare wood to fill the pores in order to create a glass-smooth finish after subsequent coats of finish. In this case, we’re using it on the topcoat only.

   Two products that work well are Behlen’s Pore-O-Pac Paste Wood Grain Filler (available from Woodcraft) and Paste Wood Filler (available from Constantine’s). Avoid fillers that are “clear,” as they don’t achieve the glowing look that the light tan, natural-colored fillers attain.

   Any quick-drying varnish will work well, too. I’ve used many brands, and don’t have any other particular favorites, other than the Benjamin Moore product. Look for either 1/2-hour or 1-hour drying varnish. They are all good for this application. If the weather is particularly humid, you’re better off with the 1-hour varnish, as it will give you more working time. I’ve used both types with great results, although in hot weather it can require some serious elbow grease. If you find the finish getting too tacky or sticky to remove easily, just wet your rag with some more of the finish to loosen up the hard stuff and it will quickly wipe away with the rag.

   If you’ve done a good job on previous varnish or oil coats, my topcoat should make your cherry look stunning and baby-smooth to the touch. Good luck!

   —Andy Rae

1. 
   SgianDubh | Dec 05, 2006 07:52pm | #2

   "Wood paste filler is traditionally used on bare wood"

   I agree that it certainly can be used this way Andy, but it's not always the case is it? If you don't want the background colour of the wood (dyed or natural) altered by the colourants in the filler it's quite common to apply a barrier coat of polish between the (possibly dyed) wood and the filler.

   I suspect, looking back on my career, that more usually I do apply a barrier coat of polish before grain filling than I don't. It can be anything that forms a film, such as shellac, varnish, lacquer, etc., and I normally thin the stuff by about 50% and apply one or two light coats.

   I use this technique, for example, where the background is oak treated with Ferrous Sulphate to turn it grey, and the grain is filled with a contrasting colour, e.g., a green or a bronze. I don't want the filler to change the colour of the grey background, and this technique prevents it happening. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   woodrae | Dec 05, 2006 08:25pm | #3

   Good points, Richard, and ones I wholeheartedly agree with. Yes, using a sealcoat applied first will often give more realistic results in terms of color, and won't result in that aweful light-gray color that only serves to accentuate the pores. You also have more leeway to adjust the color if you seal the pores first by manipulating how much filler remains on the surface. I was only referring to what is typically referred to in this country (and often published in the press, much to your chagrin, I'm sure) of using filler on bare wood—using a colored filler that's appropriate to the wood you're finishing, of course.But back to the topic at hand: using natural-colored wood paste filler as a final topcoat. Have you tried it? It's a very cool technique that adds a wonderful, warm glow to wood and typically obviates the need for a final rub-down with wax.

1. 
   SgianDubh | Dec 05, 2006 09:25pm | #4

   Andy do you mean using the natural paste filler alone as a top coat? Or is there some sort of film forming polish over the top of that to seal the wood?

   I guess I haven't used the technique, or haven't come across it, or possibly I've misunderstood you.

   Can you point me to a text that explains it, or could you quickly describe it in a bit more detail for me? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 05, 2006 09:39pm | #5

   Andy,

   I don't understand your mix as a top coat over several coats of wiping varnish.  As I see it, with 2 parts BLO, 1 part oil based grain filler, and 1 part fast drying varnish, this mix can't help but being awfully soft, being mostly oil, since binder for wood filler seems to have a lot of oil in it.  It just seems to be that oil should be used as an in-the-wood finish, not on top of films finishes, and that the small amount of varnish can only offset this softness to a small degee. 

   I see how this would avoid the typical long delay needed between grain filler application and application of top coats, since it is necessary to be sure the slow curing grain filler dries enough before it is encapsulated by a top coat that cuts off oxygen needed to complete the cure.  (I usually wait a week before topcoating over grain filler.)  Following the traditional sequence, either over bare wood, or more usually over a dye and/or a light sealer, ought to result in a much more durable finish with the varnish on top where it belongs.  And, if the top coat is a traditional resin varnish, not "poly" it will be relatively easy to repair as well, albeit not quite as easy as rubbing on another coat of oil/varnish mix. 

1. 
   woodrae | Dec 05, 2006 10:19pm | #6

   Richard--If you look at Davek's first post in this thread, you'll see he kindly included a link to a Taunton video I did on mixing and applying this finish. (You have to be a subscriber to view it.)In a nutshell, I mix together one-part boiled linseed oil, 1/2-part quick-drying varnish, and 1/2-part wood paste filler. After finishing the wood with multiple coats of a wipe-on varnish (I favor Waterlox, a long-oil varnish), I wipe on and wipe off my oil-varnish blend as a topcoat.Steve--You raise some valid questions. First, let me say (as I mentioned in the video) that I use this finish when I'm applying a penetrating finish (many like to refer to it inaccurately as an "oil finish"), and not a film finish. I achieve this, not by putting on eight to 20 coats of wiping varnish, but by wiping on only a few coats, perhaps five tops. My mixture then goes over this, and yes, it's somewhat soft (there is a goodly amount of linseed oil in the paste filler itself), but the quick-dry varnish is there in the mix to harden it up. Of course, it takes several weeks for the finish to fully cure. But that's never been a problem. Most finishes take a while to cure fully.The whole point of my using the oil/varnish blend as a topcoat is not for protective purposes. I feel there's enough wiping varnish on my work for the level of protection I'm after. The reason I use my mixture is twofold: to make the surface soft, or smooth to the touch, and to make the wood glow in a lustrous manner without concealing the grain, color or texture. When you apply wood paste filler to bare or even sealed wood, it blocks the wood pores to some extent, and that's when you start to conceal grain patterns and color. The same applies to pigment stains and toners. I'm after what I call a more "natural" look, which is what penetrating finishes offer in the first place.But each to his own. I've certainly used, and continue to use, film or overlay finishes, such as lacquers and polyurethanes. They are all good, and most film finishes offer more protection. In fact, for dining tables and other high-wear surfaces, I'll sometimes spray a light coat of polyurethane on top of my wiping-varnish and oil/varnish blend to give it a wee bit more resistance to the rigors of daily life. If you do this, however, it's wise to wait awhile to allow the oils in the finish to harden before spraying.Like I said, it's all good. There is no one finish that's 'superior' to another. It always boils down to the kind of finish you want for the work you do, which makes it a personal choice.--Andy

2. 
   SgianDubh | Dec 05, 2006 11:47pm | #8

   Andy, I admit I'm not a subscriber here so I'm unable to view the video. However, your description of the process suffices for me to get the gist of it.

   I haven't come across that finishing method is the answer. My guess is that the end result on an open grained wood might be a bit reminiscent of a limed finish-- I'm assuming the white grain filler shows through.

   Interesting approach to a top coat I must admit. I suspect it's quite soft, but that's not necessarily bad. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

3. 
   woodrae | Dec 06, 2006 01:40am | #9

   "My guess is that the end result on an open grained wood might be a bit reminiscent of a limed finish-- I'm assuming the white grain filler shows through."Nope, that's not the effect at all. On all the woods I've used, including open-pored species such as oak, the filler does not show in the pores one bit. Rather, it works to tone the wood very subtly, giving it a warmer color. No speckles, spots or otherwise "limed" look. That's because the pores are effectively sealed after four coats of any finish, including Waterlox, and once you add the filler-infused topcoat it doesn't lodge into the pores.Try it sometime. You might like the results.

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 06, 2006 05:07am | #10

   I'm going to give it a trial, I've got the physical stuff around.  Now for the time...

   Sale of house closes in January (hopefully) construction of new house begins shortly after (weather willing), shop to be packed up to be in storage for better part of a year...so....

2. 
   davek | Dec 05, 2006 10:26pm | #7

   Andy...Thanks much for your reply, and for taking time from your busy schedule to help me out.The piece in your video looks stunning, btw. Keep up the good work!David Katz
   Huntington, NY