Hi all
Am about to embark on my first attempt to stack, sticker and dry some cherry. I’ve been to the archives to refresh my memory on what I’ve read over the years, and a couple of things occur to me to ask about.
1. I intend to use the ratchet strap approach. If the strap is wrapped completely around the pile, wouldn’t the spaces between the boards in each layer shrink, or even disappear as the straps were tightened unless the stickers were exactly the same width as the pile? Or should one just strap the pile to its foundation?
2. I’m guessing that here in VT, with snow coming on, that I should cover it. I don’t want to get too fancy (or expensive), and time is of the essence, so I don’t have time to run down used metal roofing or similar (been casually looking for some time with no success), and I don’t much care for the idea of tarping it. I’m thinking a piece of CDX or OSB – is such waterproof enough? Maybe tarp the sheet goods itself, then strap it down? And I assume that a sticker’s width (height) is sufficient for holding the cover off the top of the pile, or is this a mistaken impression? And do I need to worry about the sides/ends of the pile and either wind driven or accumulated snow depth?
Thanks in advance – the logs are already at the sawyers.
Replies
Not covering the stack is a mistake. Also, air flow is critical, so I would put on a covering and place it with more than one sticker's height above the wood.
I would not use any type of strap or clamping on the pile. These will cause ripples in the boards. Use plenty of stickers and keep them in line vertically with each other. Hopefully you coated the ends of the logs, otherwise you will have to do each board individually. I would want to keep the elements from getting to the pile. I would build a tarp tent. peaked on top and wide down the sides with plenty of room to let the air flow.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I have never found in necessary to leave gaps between each board in a layer, just shove them tight together as you stack. Think of it this way, does a 1" thick 20" wide board take any different time to dry than a 1" thick 6" wide board? There is not enough water loss out the edges to make a difference plus being tight together will help reduce bowing.
Stack em with good stickers all lined up and chinch it down as tight as you can, then cover it leaving a good gap between the stack and the cover. CDX or some cheap T1-11 will work fine but metal would be better. Be sure to slope everything with one end lower so it drains well.
Rich
The Professional Termite
Edited 10/18/2008 10:42 am ET by trialnut
I usually leave a gap between boards. I think it helps facilitate air flow vertically.
Seal the ends,sticker em and weigh the boards down. I never have used ratchet straps on a stickered pile, sounds okay to me. You will have to ratchet them tighter every so often as the boards dry. Keep the weather off the pile with some kind of covering. If you use a tarp, use a large one and "tent " the tarp over the pile.I used to use the kids swing set for a frame. Osb and plywood will work,I would still tent the pile and poly the osb. A little snow fence around the pile will take care of drifting snow.I have found that cherry dries somewhat fast, I'm guessing that 4/4 boards will dry to 10% or so in 9 or 10 months instead of a year.I'm in Southern New Jersey so this may not pertain to your climate.
mike
In Missouri I have had good luck using a sheet of plywood covered with a tarp over my stack. I do provide extra clearance between the top of the stack and the cover. Placing your stickers directly at the end of the boards will also help control end checks. I ussually raise my stack about a foot off the ground so I don't have much issue with the snow.
Whats dried Cherry go for in your neck of the woods?
If your Cherry dries out #1 Select you may think differently about how you go about drying it.
1) Surface supports should be level, 16" 0C and off the ground.
If outside, use 2 courses 8: block for 15.5" off the ground.
2) Stickers all the same size and length and stacked in straight
vertical columns.
3) Starting end of pile is even and stickers 1" in from the ends
4) WEIGHT the top of the pile. I use 10 and 12" SOLID concrete blocks
set on another row of stickers and have found that the MORE WEIGHT the BETTER. Current pile (42" wide by 10 foot by SIX foot high has
about 2000 pounds of weight on it.THE more care stacking/stickering/covering (allowing for air movement while hindering moisture) will ensure the best quality lumber from the
raw green boards.Its not absurd to use a 4 pole staked canopy over a stack of HIGH QUALITY lumber that is drying, IMHO.
#1 select......ah, if only!
Can't disagree with anything you say, and most of it is available in the archives. This is not to denegrate your reply in any way - far from it. I appreciate everyone's interest.
But this endeavor is a salvage log from the firewood pile that I just couldn't bear to block up. I'll get some nice wood, some less so. Appropriate, I think, for one's first attempt at drying one's own - mistakes made aren't too expensive or painful. I'll take the advice given, do what seems right, and see how I do.
Thanks again to all.
You're only talking one log so not a lot of wood.
What I'd do is try to keep it in the order it is sliced, sticker & stack. Called in the boule (sp?). If the log is big enough I'd consider making the center slice 3" thick for leg stock.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I started drying my own lumber about 10 years ago.
Mostly oak, some cherry, hickory, maple, pine etc.
My first attempts where a little better than average because I didnt have the base very LEVEL, the stickers close enough or straight enough or close enough to the end, and finally - NOT enough TOP weight.NOW, with all subjects addressed properly,
my boards COME out in top condition and require MUCH less planning
with MUCH less waste.You get out of it what you put INTO it.Finally, you dont need a KILN to get stable boards either.
Slow drying will produce great boards - it just takes a lot longer.
I have about 400 bf of walnut that I stickered a couple weeks ago ...why the weight on top?
So that the top 3-4 layers come OUT FLAT.
IMHO, you cant have enough TOP WEIGHT.My stacks are usually 48" wide and 6 foot tall x 8-12 feet long.I would NOT consider anything less than 1500 POUNDS on top.I have a stack right now that can be taken apart and stored for use in the loft above my shop.I know DAMN well that the boards on top will come out as FLAT as LAYER #1.I learned the hard way without using any top weight................
lost 75% of the top 3-4 layers.Just bought some Select Walnut and paid
8-9 BF. CEMENT BLOCKS ARE CHEAP - BUY 20 - 10 inch solids.That would be the equivalent of maybe 5 BF of mediocre WALNUT BOARDS.EOS
Thanks, I already have the blocks and will do it this weekend...on the same subject, after these walnut bords were cut, they sat stacked on my driveway for about a month before I properly stickered them...didn't know the trick about painting the ends and so afew of the boards had some impressive checking but most did not...now it's been about 6-7 weeks since they've been milled and so they've dried a bit...should I still paint the ends or is the harm already passed?
Neil
Ike left our house undamaged but presented me with a couple of White Oak trees that are currently at a mill to be turned into some lumber so this discussion is greatly appreciated.
I have a large amount of oak plywood strips from a recent cabinet renovation. Is there anything wrong with turning it into 3/4" x 3/4" strips to use as stickers for the lumber pile?
DanPope and RDNZL:
A couple of thoughts based on extensively drying my own wood over the last 12 years or so: Plywood makes great stickers. It's cheap as dirt (at least the off-cuts, anyway), absolutely uniform thickness, and at least here in Raleigh, doesn't seem to leave sticker stain the way pine sometimes can.
I'd dispense with the strap method of cinching down the stack - it's too much work to monitor the tension as the wood dries and the strap length as it dries/gets wet, and you have to pay for the straps, which will get ruined as the metal cinch mechanism rusts in the weather.
For the top cover, OSB makes a fine rain shield - but you need to water-proof it to keep it from swelling/falling apart. I typically do this with a piece of painter's plastic from Home Despot - much cheaper than a tarp.
Finally - and other posters have noted this - weight on the top of the stack is critically important. Found rocks work well, but if you're back won't take hoisting 50lb rocks to the top of the OSB, you can use plastic milk jugs. Just line up a bunch of them on top of the sticker line, then fill them with the hose from the top of the stack. When full, they weigh about 8.5 lbs. apiece, and I'll typically use 8 of them across each sticker line.
Thanks for the info. I have noticed most articles recommend stickers to be 1x2 (3/4 x 1 1/2) but in the FWW video "How to Dry Lumber" with Dave Spacht and Mario Rodriguez (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Materials/MaterialsArticle.aspx?id=29500) he uses 3/4" x 3/4" stickers. What size do you use?I will need to start scouting the yard for the best level place to begin the stack.
I air dry thousands of board feet. I use broken stickers that are being disposed to the landfill from a large pine sawmill in my area. They use 8' stickers made from Indonesian hardwood. As they get breakage in use, they throw away the broken ones. They let me raid the dumpster, and I got enough 4' to 7' stickers to air dry at least 4000 feet at one time. These stickers are 3/4 by 3/4.
If you have a large sawmill in your area, they may left you come get some of their broken stickers.
Generally, I use stickers of a width that I already have - in other words, I don't worry about it. What I think is far more important is getting the stickers correctly oriented between the layers - in other words, perfectly over top of each other. There are occasions that I use a straight-edge level for this purpose.
Regarding painting the ends of already partially-dried boards - I'd still do it. It doesn't take long, it's cheap (assuming you're using leftover paint), and if the boards are stored outside, they will never stop changing MC as the air around them changes humidity. For that reason, they will never stop moving, and the potential for further checking is always present.
Ho! This discussion took on a new life!
Again, I appreciate everyone's input.
Here's what I've done, for better or for worse: I ended up with about a dozen 2 x 8 x 5' boards. Painted the ends w/ 3 coats left over exterior latex paint. Built up a flat (but not level) base w/ PT bunks I had on hand and shims, about 7" off the ground, which is gravel, and about 4.5' apart. Stickered w/ 3/4 x 3/4 on top of the bunks, laid the first layer "side by each", then stickered just beside the first stickers, (to allow straps around the pile) with 3 more, equally spaced in between. Continued this layering, with stickers directly above the underlying layer until all boards were stacked, then ratchet strapped (I had 'em on hand) both ends around the end stickers. Covered it with a piece of CDX I scavenged that is just larger than the pile, after stapling (from the underside) a ubiquitous blue tarp that also happened to be on hand, keeping the cover off the pile with full 2 x 2 spruce that just happened to be on hand (sound familiar?) Weighted the cover with several chunks of cordwood to keep it from blowing away.
Now I do understand that I could have done this better.....particularly the cover. The pile could be further off the ground. The boards could be gapped. And etc. But to tell the truth, the boards were not as clear as the log, to this uneducated eye, appeared. There are some knots and inclusions. I do expect a fair amount of workable wood, however. A couple of years will tell.
A good start/learning project. It cost me all of $20.
Built up a flat (but not level) base w/ PT bunks I had on hand and shims, about 7" off the ground, which is gravel, and about 4.5' apart.
Do I understand that you used 2 PT bunks, one just in from each end of the stack? If so I think you will need more to support the middle of the stack. They should be spaced no more than 2' apart across the length of the bottom of the stack.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Yes, Bob, you understand correctly.
And yes, I'm thinking more support would be better, but that's "what I happened to have on hand".
I'm hoping the 2" thicknesses will compensate. This is perhaps naive, but if so, live and learn. Like I said, the log came from the firewood pile, the boards were not as clean as expected, and the bottom line remains at $20.
In the meantime, I'll be looking out for more bunking material, used tin roofing, old solid cinder blocks, etc. for the next occasion.
Jist a nuther dam penny pinchin yankee!
Hey Mr. Miser <Me wife thinks I'm a chiseler>,
Ye know one thing you might consider is to tack some short pieces on yer stickers, move the bunks in a little and restack them planks on edge with the stickers in between em. The short pieces will keep 'em from falling through the planks. Then strap 'em tight.
Ya won't be wont fer any new stuff.
Headed for the woodshop to sharpen me chisels,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 11/10/2008 6:22 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
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