Just as I was getting ready to cut some wood, I was given an old bedroom set to refinish for my daughter. A promise made is a promise I want to keep, but I’m out of my league here. I have two problems: 1) I need to repair small areas of veneer, which I’m pretty sure is walnut (dark, purplish with open grain), and reglue it where it has come apart along the edges. 2) I need to refinish it.
1) The first photo shows the footboard. The second and third photo shows the damaged and pulled away veneer along the bottom front edge. The forth shows a poorer quality veneer pulled away from the top backside. I’ve read where I can just clean out between the core and the veneer and reglue with wood glue. Can I just reglue it? I need to figure a good way to clamp it. The damage is minor compared to other old veneers I’ve seen. I think I can just use a sharp knife and chisel the remove the damage and reglue a piece in. I’ve removed the two large pecan hulls that were lodged in the backside.
2) From the first photo, I have scraped and sanded a bit, just enough to get the shellac and some of the stain off. I don’t want to cut through the veneer. The 5th and 6th photos shows the birdseye maple veneer on the applique. I want the maple to pop but I’m pretty sure I need to finish it differently than the flatwork and legs. The legs are probably soft maple.
I’ve been reading alot but need some advice and suggestions. On the flatwork, I’m thinking to using a shellac washcoat followed by a stain of some sort, followed by a washcoat, then maybe a glaze, then maybe a poly topcoat and wax. All wipe on. On the birdseye maybe a danish oil like Watco ligh walnut, then a topcoat. I don’t want to get to complicated. Really the simpler the better. Actually the simplest that still give a good look. Although I’m really getting excited about starting.
The last photo is the original headboard, which I have done no work on. The footboard was in way worse shape. I think it is just stained or oiled and a shellac topcoat.
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Sorry the photos are so big. I hate it when I do that :>(
You would have and still will do better if you strip it rather than sand the finish off. The places in the corners are going to look awful when you try to finish them. If it is shellac then denatured alcohol will take it off.
First off, sanding is not the way to remove the old finish, especially not on veneer. Stripper works better, retails patina, and leaves a surface better able to accept dye, stain, and new finish.
That said, you want to make repairs before you do any stripping. I would use hide glue (preferably hot) for regluing veneer. Lots of spring clamps are likely to be helpful.
As far as how to finish, first see how it looks after it has been stripped. That will tell you if you need to stain or not. (You can get a first approximation of how it would look with just a clear finish by wetting with mineral spirits--which will also reveal any glue problems, or remaining finish. No need for polyurethane--it may be that just shellac will look best.
To Gretchen and Steve:
Thanks for the comments. I guess I left out the part where I used denatured alcohol to take the top coat of shellac off. I know it was shellac because the surface became gummy. After applying alcohol and wiping several times, I sanded to clean up the remaining gummy areas after they dried. The alcohol seemed to stain the wood while in places. Maybe it ws completely removing the dye. I did scrape the flatwork and birdeye just a bit, but not much. I have been sanding some of the darker, hard to get to areas and your right, they will look terrible if I just clear coated it now. I'm considering sealing and dying some of the edges of the applique just to cover up some of the dark areas that will not come out it seems, no matter how much I rub with alcohol or sand. Just wondering, why hide glue?
I'm puzzling a bit over the dating of when this piece was made. It was clearly made in a factory. The veneer work doesn't really seem like 19th century, but more like 1920s or 1930s, but I could be way off about this. If it is a 20th century date, the finish isn't likely to be shellac at all, but lacquer.
Old Lacquer would be quite likely to be soluble in alcohol, though perhaps not evenly so. When you are having to sand parts off, and when the alcohol only "wets" part of the surface to show the color change, these are strong indications that the old finish has not yet been uniformly removed. That can really jump up to bite you when trying to apply stain or dye, or even a darker toned finish. That's why I recommend a more powerful stripper as being a much better alternative than sanding. I will note again, it is better to repair first and strip after. Having old finish in place lessens any potential damage as a result of the repair work. If wiping down with alcohol or naphtha doesn't yield an even toned surface you aren't ready to apply stain or finish.
As far as hide glue goes, the original glue was likely to have been hide glue, and is the only glue where a fresh application of the same glue can "reactivate" the original glue. Hide glue would have been used in most applications up to WWII. Hot hide glue tacks up quickly, and then "shrinks" the veneer into place, really diminishing the need for clamping the veneer repair. Also, if hide glue should seep through pores in the wood it will not have nearly the impact on stain and dye as would be the case with PVA or other "modern" glues. Hot hide glue is also stronger than PVA glues, though that doesn't really matter much--all of them are strong enough. Hot hide glue would be the my clear favorite for anyone building heirloom quality furniture whether period reproduction or avant garde. Did I say I'm a fan of hide glue?
You hit the nail right on the head. It is a 1920's piece. The lady who gave use the set confirmed it. I thought it was shellac because I first took a rag and wrapped it tight around the bottom of one of the legs and soaked it with alcohol. I let it set for a couple of minutes and unwrapped. The sheen was completely gone and the rag was stained a bit. The rag also dried stiff. Also I applied alcohol to some areas and rubbed. But in places I used a soft bristle brush and scuffed, but got distracted on another area. When I came back to the first area a few minutes later, the surface was dry and rough from gentle scuffing. So I just assumed it was shellac. Maybe alcohol dissolves older lacquers. I don't know. But is does have an orangish hue which I also assumed was given by old shellac. Are you saying I should have or should be using a chemical stripper, like MEK?
Also I was at the local WWing store this afternoon buying some blond shellac flakes, to experiment with on a test board. More for just practical learning experience. They had a small sack of hide glue so I know its readily available. Sounds like hide glue is the way to go but I just didn't think I would be learning about or using hide glue this early in my fledging WWing hobby. Now I need to get set up for hide glue. Oh well, good thing I like to read. Thanks. I'll report back soon with more questions. I appreciate your help.
Yes, I would use stronger stripper. But, I don't think you mean MEK which is a good clean up solvent, but I don't think of as being a paint stripper, though the MEK might substitute for acetone in some strippers.
The strongest, most effective, stripper is Methylene Chloride. Zip Strip is one. This is something you do NOT want to breathe. Serious ventilation is called for, not just a couple of open windows. Outside in a breeze is best, but you would want to cover the surface to prevent it from drying too quickly. Make sure to follow directions as to rinsing after use since wax (used to slow evaporation) must be removed before finishing.
As to hide glue. You do not need an expensive glue pot. I use a small crock pot, mixing the glue in a glass jar that then goes in a water bath in the pot. Mine happens to maintain the glue at exactly the ideal 140°. One with a couple of temperatures is good. Salvation army almost certainly has a suitable one for very little. After using the glue for the day, you can remove the jar, clean the threads, put on the lid and refrigerate to extend the working life.
We just gave a 20 year old slow cooker to Goodwill last week. Maybe I can go buy it back! I've been reading a lot of your posts. I think I'm have my first experience as a groupie. If your not the paid FFW finish forum advisor, you should be. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I know it is time consuming. You keep writing and I'll keep reading.
Nope, you need to get into those nooks and crannies with more alcohol and scrape out the softened shellac!! You may need a dental pick or some small little tool to pull it out. Been there done that. I promise you will not like what it looks like if you don't. I'm glad you stripped it. You should not have needed much sanding if any, however.
The dark areas while wet (if I am understanding you) is the color you will get with a clear finish--the wetting (with mineral spirits--same mechanism) that Steve mentioned in his post.Gretchen
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