Replies

1. 
   DJK | Dec 01, 2004 06:59pm | #1

   I would look for a vintage USA jointer and if the spiral head is needed just swap it out.

   DJK

   Happy owner of vintge machinery.

2. 
   Rich14 | Dec 01, 2004 07:50pm | #2

   Dano,

   I have used the Grizzly. It is an excellent machine. It was not wanting in any way.

   Spiral cutterheads are all the rage now. They reduce noise and they make blade "changing" a breeze (four sharp edges on each rotating insert). But I think their superiority on highly figured woods is wishful thinking. Not that I would try to talk you out of a spiral head on a 12 inch machine, They are certainly worth the money. But if your only reason for getting a spiral is to improve results on difficult wood, I think you will be disappointed.

   The results will be the same as with standard knives. All the ususal factors apply in surfacing problem woods - very sharp knives, very light passes, wet the wood, etc., etc.

   Rich

1. 
   danr2 | Dec 02, 2004 01:33am | #4

   i used both a jointer and planer in the past with spiralcutters and they did reduce tear out, not eliminate it. i also liked the reduced noise level. obviously changing the inserts vs blades will be quicker/easier. i agree with you on the need for light passes and wetting on curley wood are good practices i will continue to use.

3. 
   RickL | Dec 01, 2004 08:01pm | #3

   I have friends with a Bridgewood and Delta 12" jointers. Good machines and I do the knife changes on them so I am pretty framiliar with the units. I think there is a lot of confusion on these spiral heads. A regular head with HSS knives is actually sharper initially than the segmented carbide inserts. Straight knives and slow feed speeds do a great job on curly woods and you can often angle the fence for a slight shear cut. The spiral heads are really small straight  oriented knives laid out in a spiral pattern. Only the http://www.byrdtool.com and a few more expensive companies have a true shear spiral cutter head. Most guys want the spiral head because they can't change knives efficiently. I can change a 20"  4 knife in 20 minutes but I do it professionally.

   The Invicta looks pretty good as well...regualr cutterhead.

   You could probably buy an older 12" machine and put in a byrd head for less than a new jointer depending on how machine savvy you are. It could also cost mre than new if you don't about what to check in used machines and what it costs to have tables reground if necessary not to mention where to even bring it for such work. A machined straght edge is a must as well.

1. 
   danr2 | Dec 02, 2004 03:12am | #5

   nice work if you can do it- 20 min 4 knife change, thats fast. yeah knife changes are time consuming and yes spiral "chickletts" are appealing for that reason also. the spiral planer i worked with was a reconditioned powermatic 24 w/ spiral.awsome machine soo quiet on hard curly maple and a great "finish". it was offered to me for 8500 hundred, also worked a moak jointer w/spiral set up and it was impressive and quiet . both of those machines were 3 phase. given my level of experience/comittment i'm leaning towards single phase machines as no 3 phase at my house and space for rotary/ static converter not there. also price a big issue.

2. 
   Michmesquite | Dec 03, 2004 03:10am | #6

   I agree with the HSS blades for initial sharpness. My MiniMax has a Tersa head and I can swap out the Chrome or Carbide blades in a matter of seconds and throw a set of HSS when warranted.

   I think the passion for spiral cutters will pass. Sharp cutting edges is what is important. How often do you want to spend a hour or so rotating cutters for a fresh edge.

   If Tersa made aftermark heads for the more popular brands you would be seeing these instead of the segmented spiral cutters. _________________________________

   Michael in San Jose

   "In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell 

1. 
   danr2 | Dec 03, 2004 03:45am | #7

   i hear what your saying about the tersa knives- my wanting a spiralhead was quieter operation, ease of replacement, and as most 12 inch jointers single phase come with 3 hp motors seem to use/need less power than straight knives. damage to a couple of inserts if nicked easy to remedy.i've used both i like a spiral better, . any opinion on the machines i asked about

1. 
   Michmesquite | Dec 03, 2004 04:43am | #8

   I have a local ww'ing friend who won a Felder (can you believe it!!!) and got rid of his MiniMax 12" J/P. He picked up a Grizzly G4178 12" x 76" Professional Jointer (current price about $2,000) and is much more than happy with it._________________________________

   Michael in San Jose

   "In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell 

4. 
   kraiza | Dec 03, 2004 06:21am | #9

   Hi Dano,

    I have 16" Cresent Jointer for sale. Year about 1920 to 1930. Just rebuilt, New 5hp motor twin belts, sand blasted and painted black the Cresent color. Tables were zero out, and 4 just sharpen blades that also been back cut. It is on a moble base that was made just for the jointer. It weights 2000 lbs. The price is $3000.  I don't know were you live but it would have to be a pick up. I live in New York.  For more info just email me. [email protected] 

5. 
   user-450633 | Dec 04, 2004 01:04am | #10

   Have had the 12" Wilke for a long time - very well machined but had some sag over time  and had to shim infeed dovetail ways. I added precision infeed extension made in our machine shop for long stock. I had only 3 knife head.

   Try to invest in minimum 3 foot or better 3 foot machined straight edge for checking  beds.

   Takes a little practice to get fence to 90 just because final tightening may shift a degree or two so youl learn to compensate for the drift  I use high quality machinist square and flashlight.

   If you can check(and Iwould) you can bring tools to make sure that there is not and that tables are parallel.

   If I were buying a new machine myself and money was not the sole parameter I would  however go for a parallelogram mechanism because they tend to stay true.

   There only a few spiral heads to buy that are high quality I believe there may be some in depth info on woodweb.com forums. Suggest strongly that you do not purchase head without reading further as some Taiwan heads may have one or more insert beds out of whack causing havoc  with your wood.  Try Shelix heads at http://www.byrdtool.com   They describe  how their's is a true spiral  resulting in shearing action and some others are not canted and cut inline and create score marks.

   Good luck

1. 
   danr2 | Dec 04, 2004 02:52am | #11

   goob advice on checking machine and i would befor purchase. i'm  familar with byrd tool as i have a catalog and have spoken to them several times. thanks for your input..

1. 
   user-450633 | Dec 04, 2004 04:11am | #12

    YOUr welcome .I may market new device to allow one to easily face joint boards on the planer more accurately  than joining